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Year 6 teachers - anyone else horrified by Writing Sats results?

(89 Posts)
minxthemanx Mon 04-Jul-11 19:56:02

The thresholds come out tomorrow, I know, but we got our papers back last week - on intial inspection, if the thresholds are similar to last year, we have only 4 level 5s (and were expecting 20+). Virtually every child has scored much lower than we predicted/have assessed them at. STACKS of input into writing over the last 3 years - 1 to 1 tuition, ingtevention groups, you name it we've done it. We're gutted. Anyone else experienced similar?

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Jul-11 19:56:54

Was this the paper about the caving trip?

mrz Mon 04-Jul-11 19:59:11

The thresholds are now on line
www.qcda.gov.uk/assessment/3880.aspx

mrz Mon 04-Jul-11 20:02:47

level 4 writing 23- 35
level 5 36 -50

clam Mon 04-Jul-11 20:20:19

Yes, have experienced this but 2 years ago. And it was a right bunfight trying to get them re-marked.
Sorry, can't help for this year.

minxthemanx Mon 04-Jul-11 20:21:36

Yes it was the caving one, and I know there were loads of typos in my post, sorry, trying to do 10 things at once, before I get flamed for poor writing standards! Just don't understand how a whole, fairly able cohort can have under performed. Am hoping when we look through, that there is dodgy marking. sad

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Jul-11 20:23:02

Everyone at the time said it was a very tough paper.

mrz Mon 04-Jul-11 20:29:20

I'm not Y6 but I thought the caving paper was reading not writing?

snice Mon 04-Jul-11 22:17:19

if you look on the TES forum there are loads of teachers with the same problem-very many 'underperforming' pupils on the writing paper. The school I work in is facing this-what can have happened to make virtually all the L5 children fail to achieve? sad

snice Mon 04-Jul-11 22:18:08

by L5 children I mean those predicted a L5 in teacher assessments

sittinginthesun Tue 05-Jul-11 13:51:06

Not a teacher, but just saw this on the BBC news page http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-14028041

clam Tue 05-Jul-11 14:03:39

bbc site quotes someone as suggesting schools "request a review" if they have concerns. I believe you have to pay for that, don't you? Correct me if I'm wrong.

rosar Tue 05-Jul-11 15:02:25

Do a year's SATS results matter? A school's reputation is surely based on far more than narrow and unimaginative drilling in two subjects. The child will be assessed through CATs in their next school so their SATs results are irrelevant.

What would be the point of expending even more resource in reviews (at a time when UK PLC is already stretched)? Is this a case of primary headteachers' egos departing wildly from their important but hardly major contribution in the overall educational passage of a child? Or will the difference between L4 and L5 affect bonuses or the viability of a school?

Get some perspective. Some of we parents have had enough of our children being taught little except exam technique in year 6, and exposed to naked ambition by some less restrained staff, with the more balanced human beings on the staff having to patch and mend victims of the SATs culture. Thank heavens my lot are past this stage, is my main thought.

Feenie Tue 05-Jul-11 15:30:43

Rosar, a school's perspective is dictated by Ofsted - these results are made very important both by Ofsted, the LEA and existence of league tables.

Poor results trigger questions from the Ofsted team before they set foot in the building - why are results poor? Is it the teaching? Is teacher assessment rigorous? Does it match work produced by children on a day to day basis? Why aren't able children achieving level 5? Why doesn't teacher assessment match test results?

Poor results trigger LEA involvement - advisory visits, SIP questions, etc, all asking the above questions.

Parents choosing schools for the following year often look at the league tables, and in a small school one child can count for 4/5% - a huge slide. Parents rarely look at the results for the last three years together.

All this is in no way justfiable because of one crappy, poorly paid marker. But it happens all the time.

As it happens, our work was fairly marked this year - for the first time in years and years, I will not have to sit writing reviews which have in the past altered our results by as much as 20%. Yes, that bloody matters. Fwiw, we are a school who teaches a broad and balanced curriculum, with no drilling. But we still have to ensure that our results are as good as they can be, and that the marking is fair and just.

Feenie Tue 05-Jul-11 16:09:56

Also, poor writing results would mean the whole school development plan written around them aswell as all the above. All because of one person,

I can't believe you thought all those reviews were driven by headteachers' egos, that is so far from the truth it's quite funny!

feckwit Tue 05-Jul-11 16:14:22

Interesting. I know the papers are back with the teachers in my son's school nad last week his usually very happy and positive teacher was more stressed than I ahve ever seen him. I wondered at the time if it may be due to lower than expected sats results so will be interested to see.

Would be strange as this year was their highest success rate in a long time in terms of the 11+ with 25% getting into grammars (very competitive grammar system here).

rosar Tue 05-Jul-11 16:19:42

Thanks for the explanation, Feenie.

All of us are subject to accountability, whether it is the market or a regulator. Call me old-fashioned, but a good school's perspective is dictated by doing the right educational things, not by a regulator's array of tick boxes. All well-delivered, sustainable public services are driven by far-sighted and operationally-driven professionals, not by the regulator. Good education brings good results.

No, it 'bloody' doesn't matter to parents that weak-minded primary school leaders have to be driven by something as crude and limited as the current two subject formulaic SATs, which with enough brutality most schools can deliver 100% L4s and 50% L5s. It just puts the children off this type of so-called education, but why would that 'bloody' matter to staff who can't see beyond using these children to bolster up their image and egos, in lieu of teaching simply because it makes a difference to young lives?

Most professionals take input from all stakeholders. To have only a short-sighted Ofsted perspective is not exactly professional by any standards.

clam Tue 05-Jul-11 16:28:18

I take it you have an issue with your children's school, Rosar?
For the record, many parents would disagree with you and do in fact set great store by a school's results. You only have to look on here to see that.

Feenie Tue 05-Jul-11 16:46:52

Good education brings good results.

It should. But often, it simple does not. If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. The quality of the writing markers sometimes leaves a lot to be desired. I looked into it once, before I had children, and worked out that to give enough time to each paper, I would receive about 50p an hour.

You are not listening. A poor set of SAT results can change the whole life of a school, all by outside influences, not weak management. The majority of teachers would love to ignore the tests, and in really good schools we pay them as little lip service as we dare - but when the marking is not right, or just, or fair, it has huge consequences out of the control of the school.

Feenie Tue 05-Jul-11 16:48:31

but why would that 'bloody' matter to staff who can't see beyond using these children to bolster up their image and egos

What a bizarre claim. I have never met a teacher whose ego is driven by test results, they would be laughed out of the school! Image, rofl! grin

mrz Tue 05-Jul-11 17:01:09

rosar a dip of 1% is enough to trigger an OFSTED inspection and send an Outstanding school into Special Measures the balance is so easily tipped and knowing what you do is the right educational thing isn't enough. Egos simply don't come into it when satisfactory means failure.

diabolo Tue 05-Jul-11 17:10:00

We've had a really crap day. Our Head of English says that most borderline Level 4 students didn't manage to complete the long writing paper - so our results are lower than usual and we're usually much better at English than Maths.

We're due an OFSTED during the Autumn term but everyone is petrified they will roll up during the last two weeks of this one now!

Feenie Tue 05-Jul-11 17:14:44

We've managed to get 100% in writing, with 47% level 5s - it's our reading that's down, especially our level 5s- that threshold went up a lot, didn't it?

Fits in very well with the big government reading focus. wink

clam Tue 05-Jul-11 17:17:15

47% level 5s in writing?! Blimey!

clam Tue 05-Jul-11 17:18:18

Now you watch that ego of yours feenie. wink

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