I think the 11 plus is unfair

[LargeGlassofRed]

Dd1 failed her 11 plus today, she did'nt have tutoring just a practice paper from wh smiths.

It seams all of her close friends have passed, she' ok she does like the local comp, but she's dreading Monday at school

I seamed to be in the very small minority who hasn't paid for private tuition,

Just ranting really and feeling sad for her, I'm sure it will all blow over by next week.

[GrimmaTheNome]

I think what's really unfair is that the state primary schools don't familiarize everyone with the 11+ as they did when I was a child. Then everyone was 'tutored' by the school (AFAIK no one did extra outside) so the playing field was more level.

[LargeGlassofRed]

I agree Grimma, the school make a point of not doing any practice.

Found out thin week that 2 of dd's friends have had 3 years tutoring
How can she compete with that.

[GrimmaTheNome]

I'm not sure state primaries are allowed to teach kids 11+ nowadays. Which is ridiculous, as private schools do.

Its a shame - if those kids actually needed 3 years of tutoring to pass, then they may find that they aren't really best suited to the GS anyway.

[LargeGlassofRed]

Yes, I'm sure state primaries are not allowed to teach the 11+.

I agree if the child needs that much tutoring they will struggle at GS but If the majority of children are tutored,
then any that aren't, are at a real disadvantage.

If I 'm honest I think DD may have struggled with a GS, just horrid going through it all, for the children and parents.

[bigchris]

Yes everyone seems to get private tuition, not just in the summer holidays before the exam but for the whole of year six
tell your dd to hold her head up high
she won't know her classmates in a years time
even if they go to the same school they won't be in the same tutor group, house etc

[LargeGlassofRed]

Thanks Chris, I will

She's lovely beautiful, caring, funny girl, and I'm sure she'll be fine when it all blows over.

[Ingles2]

sorry but how is it unfair????
some people paid to tutor , you didn't.
that is entirely your choice but it doesn't make it unfair.
Surely you must have realised she'd be competing with dc who had loads of tutoring / attend independents where they teach to the test?
You've let her down imo...
and also...didn't the school advise you as to whether she'd pass or not?

[GrimmaTheNome]

Ingles -

Not everyone can afford to tutor (or send their kid to a private school). So of course its unfair. And even when it is a matter of parental choice, if they could afford to tutor but don't, thats still on the child.

In the days when state primaries did the coaching for everyone, grammar schools could aid social mobility. Now because they can't, it entrenches middle-class privelige.

[LargeGlassofRed]

Thanks Pixie and Grimma, I couldn't afford to pay for a private tutor.

[cory]

I am very happy that we do not have the 11+ in our county.

Dd who is gifted is not suffering from going to school with some less academic friends: the school is excellent at differentiating and it is not holding her back at all. But she was unwell for much of Yr 6, so if we had had the 11+ she might well have failed and ended up surrounded by non-academic children in the comp. It wasn't our choice that she was ill. But thanks to the non-grammar location, she now has a chance to learn with children of similar ability- and with others.

Ds, who has been a very slow developer, still has a chance to be stimulated by the example of some of the brighter children around him and do better at secondary school. But if he doesn't, there will also be plenty of children at his level.

[stoatsrevenge]

ingles
What about the children who are tutored and then fail? How do they feel?

I hate the whole thing. The whole process stinks. The way grammar schools are looked at as cathedrals of academia stinks.

My ds has just finished Y13 in an 'outstanding' establishment. The education he received was crap. Lazy teachers, middle ability overlooked, narrow curriculum.....
Don't get me started....

[cornsilk]

Of course it's unfair if some people pay for private tutors.

[ravenAK]

Ingles, it shouldn't be what a grammar's for.

It should be about identifying children with academic potential & offering them a demanding & enriched educational provision (whether one agrees with creaming off bright kids like this is a whole other subject).

Coaching & teaching to the test is inevitable, I suppose, but children who need much tutoring to get in are unlikely to thrive at a grammar IMO.

& yes, clearly it's unfair.

[Ingles2]

oh come on..the OP doesn't really think it's unfair...or she wouldn't have put her dd in for the test would she?
You don't have to pay for private tution..if she bought a test from WHS that's good enough, but you can't expect to just do one test paper she should have been preparing for a while...
and I'm not being nasty just realistic...
I'm probably going to be in this position myself on Monday..but I'm not going to be bleating it's unfair if ds doesn't pass. Both he and I have done our best..and if that's not good enough,.. so be it!.

[GrimmaTheNome]

I actually am a big fan of grammar schools - I went to one (it turned comp the year after our intake and steadily went downhill); DD has just started at one.

But I passionately believe that entrance should be based on the aptitude of the child not the ability of the child's parents to pay. I simply don't understand why primaries don't do what they used to.

[Ingles2]

oh come on!...my ds is supposedly G&T, whatever, he's very bright,
but he's in a common or garden state school
how can that compete with children who have been tutored for years?
It can't,... both ds1 and have had to put the work in.
and papers from WHS are FINE just not 1!

[cornsilk]

Well I can't prepare ds2 at home 'cos of ds1 who is extremely high needs and demanding. So despite being a highly experienced specialist teacher I am paying for someone else to do it. There are all sorts of reasons why people can't help their kids at home.

[Ingles2]

the shouldn't be in that position Stoats... our school is very clear over who they think it grammar and who not...
they tell you clearly they will support you if you need to appeal. Infact, if needed, they will have already appealed for DS1 and we don't even find out.

[mamatomany]

Mine passed I think it's perfectly fair, DD worked her ass off, practice papers every other night on top of homework and I have gone without to pay for her tutor for the past 6 months, cost me around £600 over all.
I guess you'll know for next time but the WH Smith papers should be fine if that's the exam you are taking it often isn't though. The LEA sends parents copies of practice papers here.

[MarshaBrady]

The whole institution is unfair.

Because being highly academic is just luck. It shouldn't enable a much better education.

Since they do exist, practising with a tutor or parent is fine and not unfair.

[lilolilmanchester]

at Ingles - very narrow minded IMO, I take it £25 an hour for tutoring wouldn't be a problem for you??? Sheesh.

LargeGlassofRed..... going in to school on Monday is likely to be hard for your DD - just remind her that the 11+ isn't so much about passing and failing, it's about finding the right school for each child. Those kids who have been tutored to death won't necessarily be in the right school, even though they have passed. Good luck to her at her new school xx