Limiting his access to the kids

[Zupermumm]

I need to end my marriage to my horrible, angry husband. We have been married 14 years, with two boys (5&7). He had an affair 5 years ago and we separated for 6 months but I stupidly went back to him as he and his mum begged us to come back and give it another go and he was going to change. I was perfectly happy on my own and it was a relief to run my own household without fear of his anger. He still hasn’t changed, in fact his anger and rage has increased towards the kids, myself, his mum, our neighbours, and any random person who pisses him off. I am so angry at myself for taking him back. By now the kids and I would have been set up again, but sadly I was lead back to him.

The children are often scared when he has an anger outburst. Recently he took the kids to the supermarket and got in a raging argument there over something trivial and they were terrified and sent me a message from their iPad when they got home to let me know to come home ASAP.

I am at the point where we need to seperate so I can protect myself and the children. I don’t love him, and haven’t for some time, but have stayed primarily because if we seperate then he will get one on one time with the kids without me there and I am scared that I won’t be able to protect them if he has an outburst. At the moment I can comfort them and take them to another room, but if he has them when I am not there then I can’t protect them.

Yesterday he had another rage incident while my parents were over and they not only witnessed the rage, but also the kids running to me saying that they were scared of daddy. I asked my parents to take the kids out for a while so he could calm down. Next time I see them I know they are going to put pressure on me to leave too.

So ... that’s the background. I have been keeping a journal of his outbursts and horrible verbal abuse since around November last year. Just brief notes whenever a situation has made me or the kids uncomfortable. I am hoping this will be enough to restrict his access to the kids when we separate? Anyone with experience here?

Has anyone else been in this situation and have some advice on how to seperate from an angry, raging person and how I can protect my kids from him once seperated? Ideally I would like him to leave and I stay in the house, but he is unlikely to agree to that so I suspect the kids and I will need to stay with my parents so we can sell the house.

I’m emotionally detached from the marriage, so I don’t care about myself, however I do love my children to the moon and back and want to minimise the impact on them :(

[Zupermumm]

@lauraannex have you posted in the wrong thread?

[thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter]

Ignore them OP they're trolling threads, I've reported them.

[thatdarncat]

Ignore that trolling waste of space up thread OP.

I don’t have any experience of this but someone will be along soon hopefully with some wisdom I’m sure.

[millymollymoomoo]

This is a really challenging One because unless he is physically a danger to them ( and can be proved) he will in all honesty be given overnight access in a regular basis

It may we’ll be put down to a difference of parenting styles

You need to speak to a solicitor about the divorce and child welfare concerns

[Whatsthepoint99]

Op, I think that sadly, without proven risk of physical violence to the children, it is likely he would be granted contact. However there are some other things for you to think about here.
First, the courts are slowly getting better at recognising emotional abuse and coercive control. It sounds like your husband rules the household through a reign of terror. That is emotionally abusive to you and to the children. He controls you and the children through your fear of his aggressive outbursts. That is also coercive control. Please look these terms up. Women’s Aid is a good place to start.
These aren’t just legal terms. That sort of behaviour is viewed as abusive because it will have a long term impact on your children, as well as you. I totally understand your fear of leaving them in his care alone, but you also need to think about how your parenting if currently effected by being in the same house as him. Do you find yourself constantly checking yourself and your behaviour in case it upsets him? What is your parenting like when he is away from the home? Does it change for the worse when he is home? Do you flinch and become on edge when he puts the key in the door?
All those things will affect your kids too. I’m sorry to spell this out to you as it’s hard to hear and it’s an awful choice to have to make. But the choice isn’t just between staying with him Vs leaving him and risking the kids being alone with him. It’s staying with him and having him as a constant presence in the home and in their lives Vs them being exposed to him alone perhaps once a week or fortnight. If you can be a substantially better parent with him out of the house, then that is something that needs to be weighed up against the risk of them being periodically exposed to him.
But it’s a horrible choice.
It sounds like the ideal solution would be he sees the kids with someone else present - either formally supervised (which you will need a court to order, and will need to prove this is required) or get him to informally agree to it - eg his parents or another relative - which some men do agree to as they are too lazy to cook for the kids etc.
If you go down the court route I’d advise you to get legal advice ASAP to see how strong your case is. It’s good you kept that diary. Think about what other corroborating evidence you also have - other witnesses (eg your parents recently) text messages from him or others - that message the kids sent from their iPad. If you’ve ever been frightened enough to have to call the police, or if neighbours have done that for you, then that can also be used as evidence in family court.
Sorry you have to deal with this. There aren’t any easy solutions, but I recommend a good lawyer if you can afford that

[Zupermumm]

Thank you both for taking the time to reply. I don't think we would get to the point where he is violent enough to call the police (at least I hope not) so will likely just need a very good lawyer to help me navigate this. I spoke with my parents today and the incident yesterday scared them as well, and they want to talk more about it, but have given me the assurance that they can help me get out of this situation, but also understand my concerns for the kids and the need to tread gently. Gosh I hate him so much.

[june2007]

Is this a new thing? Is he angry due to your relationship breakdown, because if that's the case a divorce might improve things? Have you tried having a clam conversation about you being worried about how angry he gets and is he concerned about it? Why did he get angry at the children in the shops. (and was it even at the children.) .

[Embracelife]

You need to report the incidents otherwise it means nothing.
Talk to your gp say your children are scared.
Call the safeguarding lead at school for advice.
Be ready to tell social services about your concerns

[Embracelife]

would the supermarket have a witness on staff or cctv?
You need evidence if you plan to apply to limit contact.

[Embracelife]

And you can protect them more when apart.
First in absence of court order you can say they won't visit unless he commits to controlling his anger
Second if they go once and an incident happens you immediately report to social services and keep the children from Visits and let him then go to court.
You need evidence of the incidents and concerns meaning reporting them .
Your journal is not enough on its own
Yes it might mean investigation and ss involvement but it s the only way to legally get restrictions on his contact or super vised contact or him being ordered to take anger management.
If he is kicking off to all and Dundry leave immediately with d and suggest he seeks help.
If it enraged him more call police if he kicking off

[Embracelife]

stop treading gently.
Get out with dc today to your parents and take it from there.

[OhioOhioOhio]

You need to be able to prove that they are in imminent physical danger or no one does anything.
Best advice is to let him do the damage himself. If he takes them you get a rest and they get to work out he's a bastard. Your home gets happier because you've had a rest. His home won't because he's a pig.

[spacetime]

He's abusive to your children. They're scared of him. Please contact your health visitor about this. Your 5 year old will still be under a health visitor. That was my starting point when I was in your situation.