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Finances - no lump sum in exchange for no maintenance?

(40 Posts)
Purplejay Sun 24-Feb-19 15:02:51

H and I separated last May. He began an affair about a year ago which is ongoing. H lives in our camper and spends a few nights at hers. I am in the house which is in my name and for which I am responsible with our 12 yo. At times we have been finanicially equal (both having some inheritance) but he has been irresponsible and that is no longer the case. We have always kept our finances separate. However the house has gone up, in value since I bought it so he is at least entitles to half that in my mind. While living here he paid ‘board’. He is self employed and could not get a mortgage on his own so would have to rent or buy with OW.

I have been trying to establish what sort of settlement he wants. In the early stages he mentioned having a few thousand from me (I would remortgage to pay this) to throw in with her to buy somewhere (they cooled things for a while but are now seeing each other again), or being entitled to something when our son is 18. Now though he refuses point blank to discuss it and says he doesn’t want anything at all.

He refuses to contribute to our child or our dogs (which we share) because he is not asking for anything from me. If I ask, he will say you keep trying to give me money just knock it off what you think I am entitled to!

I have been giving some thought to this. Could we agree to him making no claim and in exchange he pays no maintenance? Is this something a Court would ever agree to on divorce? I am also prepared sign over the camper so he would have that to sell in due course if he wishes. I think he is waiting to see how things play out with OW before making any plans.

Anyone done something similar? Any thoughts?

OP’s posts: |
NotSuchASmugMarriedNow1 Sun 24-Feb-19 15:07:33

It's a mumsnet myth that self employed people can't get mortgages and I wish people would stop spreading this.

Self employed people can, and do, get mortgages all the time.

NotSuchASmugMarriedNow1 Sun 24-Feb-19 15:09:25

Sorry, forgot to add that child maintenance and the financial settlement are two completely different things.

He absolutely has to pay child maintenance. Could you go through the CMS if he won't pay voluntarily.

HollowTalk Sun 24-Feb-19 15:09:25

Yes but presumably he is self employed and not earning enough money or regular money, so he can't get a mortgage.

Nobody would say that someone who's self-employed can never have a mortgage. JK Rowling would be classed as self-employed.

Purplejay Sun 24-Feb-19 15:12:11

Not on their own when they only declare £12k of earnings and don’t (and have no intention of getting) proper accounts they don’t 🙄

OP’s posts: |
NotSuchASmugMarriedNow1 Sun 24-Feb-19 15:15:33

oh yes, you'd need proper accounts going back 2 or 3 years, of course.

How much is the camper van worth?

I don't think a court would agree to him not paying child maintenance in return for having no claim on the house. Of course, he can agree to have no claim on the house, but that doesn't mean he won't have to pay maintenance. As ever, the courts have wide discretion. Do you have any other assets and how old are the children?

Purplejay Sun 24-Feb-19 15:17:08

I realise that CM and FS are different. And yes I could go through CMS but things are currently amicable and if he feels hard done by he may decide to try and screw me over with regards to the FS! He struggles to make ends meet but refuses to either put in enough effort with the business or be employed (he has earning capacity equal to or greater than mine). When he makes a little extra money, he eithe spends it or puts it back into the business.

OP’s posts: |
Purplejay Sun 24-Feb-19 15:20:30

Camper van worth 15k, 2/3 mine.

DS is 12.

We both have a few thousand (his is invested supposedly for DS).
We have a vehicle each and he has his business. We both have pensions but no idea what they are worth.

OP’s posts: |
NotSuchASmugMarriedNow1 Sun 24-Feb-19 15:21:03

Do you think that things are currently amicable because you're doing everything his way?

Would need a bit more info really such as how much equity is in house, how many kids and what ages, and what other assets such as pensions there are.

I'd be worrying about him not paying child maintenance and then going for half of the house anyway. I've seen that happen a couple of times.

Purplejay Sun 24-Feb-19 15:26:55

Probably yes (about things going his way)!

I am worried about him paying nothing and then going for half the house (over my dead body)!

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NotSuchASmugMarriedNow1 Sun 24-Feb-19 15:37:27

You need to file for divorce sooner rather than later then. The younger your child is, the more likely it is that you will be able to stay in the house and not have to sell it and split the proceeds. You also need to have a clearer view of exactly how much the pensions and other assets are worth.

But the most important thing to remember is this. He doesn't get to decide how the assets are split. Either you agree between you, or the judge decides. And the judge will be fair so you've really got nothing to lose by going to court (unless you reach an agreement).

A starting point would be to submit your form E's. When you get his Form E, sit down with a cup of tea and a ruler and go through that Form with a fine toothcomb. He has to supply 12 months of bank statements. Go through this with a fine toothcomb. You're looking for any money being transferred from one account to another. and he has to supply a years worth of statements for every single account. Any account you don't recognise, ask him what it is.

So, quite a bit of work for you to do yet grin

Purplejay Sun 24-Feb-19 15:48:36

I bought the house with my deposit, a large chunk from my mum and a mortgage. My mum has since died.

He inherited a similar chunk from his mum which he invested badly against my wishes/behind my back so most of it has gone. He could have paid off the mortgage and gone on the deeds but chose not to.

I feel that was his choice and he shouldnt now be able to come after what is mine. However I am also very aware that a Court would give him something. The law is set up to protect stay at home mums who take responsibility for the kids/house while their OH works and rightly so. However from some of the stories I have read, it is not set up to protect women who work and take responsibility for the kids/house while their OH sits on their arse/are financilly irresponsible/do what they like.

In my mind half of the increase in value since we moved in would be fairer which would be around 25k (so my share of the camper and then £15k).

OP’s posts: |
gambaspilpil Sun 24-Feb-19 15:55:37

My DF divorced recently and he tried to be amicable. They didn’t have DC and both had there names on the mortgage and contributed to the deposit as they both sold properties. However his contribution was far larger than hers. She tried to get half from the sale when they were divorcing and it ended up going to court and contributions were taken into account. She ended up with 20% and he with 80%. She was foolish as he had offered her 40%. So not only isn’t your DH on the deeds he hasn’t contributed so this notion of he would get half simply because your married isn’t true. Go and see a solicitor....

Purplejay Sun 24-Feb-19 16:23:01

Yes much to think about NotSuchASmugMariedNow1

That is encouraging Gambaspilpil.

Thank you.

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TwoRoundabouts Sun 24-Feb-19 20:30:47

OP you have a child who isn't a teenager to house until they are 18 so he won't be entitled to half. As a PP said go and see a solicitor and start the divorce asap.

The sooner you start it the sooner you can sort out a consent order and get it agreed. If he refuses to agree to a consent order then you can take it to a judge. If you wait another 2 years your son could be 17 before you get to the point of sorting out finances.

RainbowMum11 Sun 24-Feb-19 21:06:30

I think it's completely up to the 2 of you to agree.
It's bollocks that he absolutely has to pay you maintenance, there is no reason whatsoever why the two of you can't make an arrangement and have it drawn up.
XH & I have done exactly that - if the 2 parties in a divorce agree, there is no reason why a court would not allow it.

wobytide Sun 24-Feb-19 23:37:48

It's bollocks that he absolutely has to pay you maintenance, there is no reason whatsoever why the two of you can't make an arrangement and have it drawn up.

Yet again the fallacy of mumsnet advice. Child maintenance court orders only ever have 12 month validity, don't fall into the trap. Either parent can refer to the CMS again in future for the current circumstances

Dropthedeaddonkey Mon 25-Feb-19 00:13:22

I’m in a similar position right down to the lazy irresponsible self emp STBXH. I’m thinking of offering a capital sum instead of a percentage of equity payable when dc leave home and then deducting the maintenance he would have to pay from the sum owed each year. So I reckon by the time I would have to sell the house I would effectively have paid him his share. He’d prefer to have the income now and not pay maintenance (he can rely on family money for when he’s older). I’ve no idea how a court would view that though.

HeddaGarbled Mon 25-Feb-19 00:34:31

The house is a marital asset. It doesn’t matter that you paid for it or it’s your name on the deeds. The equity is in the pot to be divided up between you (not just the increase in equity since you bought it). The camper van is also in the pot. You don’t own 2/3 - it’s another marital asset, along with your individual savings, pensions, everything.

You need to get on with the divorce and financial settlement ASAP (the older your son is, the less you need to house and financially support him) and you need to get legal advice.

NotBeingRobbed Mon 25-Feb-19 07:22:36

I fear @HeddaGarbled is correct. There is no such thing as his money and your money. It’s all joint. Half a house is going to be worth a lot more than a camper van and he’s entitled to half the house. Child support is non-negotiable but if you do not claim you cannot get it in arrears so you should claim ASAP.

I’m so sorry but these are the legal facts and the reason that I am so angry that my own good-for-nothing abusive ex is fleecing me of the money I have earned over many many years.

Monty27 Mon 25-Feb-19 07:23:38

.

anniehm Mon 25-Feb-19 07:49:01

You can come to a private financial arrangement - many couples do just agree to a final split no maintenance as it means you have no longer got a financial connection. A sensible solution is no money from the house, no maintenance but he pays for expenses relating to your dc visiting him eg travel and trips etc plus any school expenses and university in the future to be agreed ten

crimsonlake Mon 25-Feb-19 08:27:23

I really think you should take this to the government funded Wikivorce divorce website. They are marvellous and with their help and support gave me the courage and ammunition to self represent through 5 court hearings following my separation. Make sure you are very precise and post all details, starting with ages, length of marriage, children, assets, pensions and anything else you can think of and someone will be along to help you.

Purplejay Tue 26-Feb-19 08:10:21

Notbeingrobbed - I don’t accept he is entitled to half the house. Many settlements are reached on a 60/40 or 70/30 split or what the parties agree. Leaving aside fairness in terms of contributions, I am still the one housing our DS and surely should get more than him

Anniehm and dropthedeaddonkey - yes these are the arrangements I was thinking of, just not sure how a court would view it.

Rainbowmum11 - did your arrangement involve future maintenance?

I will look at wikivorce but on past experience it is full of people saying he is entitled to half. I doubt a court would award him half. However they may award him more than I think is equitable given our circumstances. Even 70/30 seems to much.

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NotBeingRobbed Tue 26-Feb-19 08:46:01

@Purplejay I’m not saying I think it’s right - just that this is what is happening to me and I’ve been told that it is “fair”. It certainly doesn’t feel fair to me!! He is getting/has been offered 50%. He actually wants 65%. I have paid for about 70% of the house and I am housing two kids - full time resident parent for one and the other coming home here from uni. I’m just saying what the courts think - which is a long, long way from what I think is right!!

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