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CMS - Tribunal - Opinions PLEASE

(21 Posts)
Hehx3 Wed 05-Dec-18 07:21:13

Hi I would some opinions please. Im going through cms tribunal at the moment. My mandatory reconsideration has been rejected "due to incoming change of circumstances" - as turns out fixed overtime at my ex work is not going to be available. However I agree it is change of circumstances his basic salary is twice as much to what calculations had been made to and that is not due to change, he still works overtimes just not "fixed" - not that I care about that. What are my chances in your opinions I am overthinking this whole process and stressing here ;
(4 months now) :-(

MissedTheBoatAgain Wed 05-Dec-18 07:55:36

his basic salary is twice as much to what calculations had been made to

Did you provide CMS with evidence of this when you asked for the reconsideration?

Hehx3 Wed 05-Dec-18 08:00:21

He provided- a letter from employer stating fixed overtime going to cease and his pay slips indicating basic salary level and any overtime on top

eve34 Wed 05-Dec-18 08:23:00

Regardless of overtime being fixed or not. I thought the % was on basic salary. Overtime and any bonus. So needs to pay on what he earns.

Although I have realised the cms are inept. They calculated my award on his pension only the first time. Explained he has a salary as well as a pension. So mandatory reconsideration worked out award on salary only.

They couldn't add the two together. Now have to appeal. Which can take six months I h e been told. I could weep.

MissedTheBoatAgain Wed 05-Dec-18 08:28:46


Did CMS not explain how they arrived at their assessment and state what earnings had been used?

MissedTheBoatAgain Wed 05-Dec-18 08:37:14

To Eve34

I have issues too with CMS. They have made 3 different assessments in less than a year and are still looking at earnings for 2016! Difficulty seems that CMS do not know how to interpret the information that is listed on Tax Returns as income may come from several different sources. They seem to look at PAYE earnings only when making their first assessment. Rental income, dividends, interest on savings, pensions, etc., are only taken into account when a Variation is requested by sounds of things?

PottyPotterer Wed 05-Dec-18 08:37:39

I've been through tribunal with CMS, I won. I chose not to appear at the hearing and did it all in writing. It did take 12 months though, my ex had to repay all underpaid CM. In my case he had applied for mandatory reconsideration which I challenged bet he regrets that.

Hehx3 Wed 05-Dec-18 08:40:04

Thank you. They based it on last year salary, from HMRC. Rejected my because of change of circumstances (e.i fixed overtime ceasing). Im not a money grabber i work full time and have children in a week and EOW, one of my children is disabled im struggling to privide for his therapy (his needs are significant) thats why is so important to me. If it will last much longer I will end up with a breakdown, I cant bare it now and its only month 4

Collaborote Wed 05-Dec-18 09:04:40

If the loss of overtime results in a decrease in earnings of 25% or more then CMS can make a new assessment before the annual review.

Hehx3 Wed 05-Dec-18 09:12:01

He never provided evidence of this decrease. Its depressing, seems they wont even look his basic is twice as much and that this is not changing

PottyPotterer Wed 05-Dec-18 09:24:21

If they've based yor CM award on half his actual salary you'll probably win your case. The tribunal will force CMS to investigate his finances thoroughly which they so often fail to do initially.

Hehx3 Wed 05-Dec-18 09:34:08

Yes, thats what im hoping for that is not just based on "change of circumstances". Thank you thats a bit reassuring. Its not massive amount anyway, he pays £30 per week for 2 but still increase about £150 a month would pay for 2 therapy sessions a month

greenberet Sat 08-Dec-18 11:36:40

Op get on the phone to them - tell them in no uncertain words what this means to you - it’s a fight - a continual bloody fight - they are mostly inept but you may get someone who is more than a jobsworth. Eventually my case was looked at because they could no longer ignore and fob me off - I was told it should have been dealt with a year previously - I went through tribunal - x was taking it to court - I felt on verge of breakdown many a time - tell them this is for your disabled son - his quality of life is affected - they need to hear what effect all this bullshit has in real life outside of their four walls!

Good luck

Hehx3 Sat 08-Dec-18 18:22:10

Thank you greenberet. I will try that. They seemed to not give me any feedback as case goes through tribunal. I hope its not much longer to wait, I dont think I can wait longer

MissedTheBoatAgain Mon 07-Jan-19 08:49:49

My Ex has initiated a Tribunal, but I am not yet sure what they are appealing against. Spoke to the appeals Dept. and they did not know either! All they said was that an appeal had been initiated and I would receive the details later. Their best guess was that Ex is challenging the CMS figure. Annual review has just been completed and yet another figure has been produced which makes 4 different figures in 12 months!

First CMS assessment was too low as they had not taken unearned income into account and Ex had to apply for a Variation. A further adjustment was made to reflect that shared care is less than 52 nights per year. So not sure what errors remain unresolved? Tax Returns are prepared by professional accountants and HMRC have never queried the Tax Returns.

I now work outside UK for a foreign company and pay local taxes. CMS have advised that in those circumstances they no longer have Jurisdiction so possible when appeal takes place (estimated to be 9 months away) it is dismissed?

As NRP am I obliged to attend the Tribunal? If so then I am looking at 14 hours flying and loss of earnings for time off. Can these costs be claimed from Ex if the appeal is dismissed?

Hehx3 Mon 07-Jan-19 12:00:43

There are more things she could based it on for example if child is disabled ir cost of "dropping" children to yourself. I dont think you are obligated to attend, I am Applicant and I dont have to.

MissedTheBoatAgain Wed 09-Jan-19 04:41:24

To Hehx3

Child is not disabled and dropping off child at his grandparents house is on her way to work anyway. So there are no additional travel costs.

Guess will have to wait till the appeal papers are served to see what the objection is all about?

xzcvbnm Wed 09-Jan-19 08:47:42

The CMS are completely incompetent - always use the old saying "Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by stupidity" when dealing with them!

Hehx3 Wed 09-Jan-19 12:15:51

To MissedABoat within a month you will receive her Application form which will have all the details with an explanation of why she wants to appeal. CMS might not have received this yet. Unfortunatelly it all drags in time.

lifebegins50 Fri 11-Jan-19 07:43:58

Missedtheboat, as you know your total gross salary then pay 12% of that (if that is the figure). Be open with your Ex and completely honest with your income, offshore or otherwise.

Don't put your EX and child through hoops with CMS as you know they cant touch your foreign income..doesnt make it the moral will still have most of your income so why not be generous as you can afford it.

See the bigger picture and ensure that your son is well provided for especially when you are out of the country so never see him on a regular basis.

MissedTheBoatAgain Fri 11-Jan-19 08:06:49

To LifeBegins50,

CMS assessments have been made from Tax year starting 6 April 2016 up to Tax Year ending 5 April 2018 during which time I was employed by a UK registered Company even though working outside UK. So Ex's appeal will be based on those assessments. Tax return for my time working for a foreign company since 6 April 2018 has not yet been prepared as current Tax Year does not end until 5 April 2019.

No problem with paying what CMS have calculated. Just can't work out what the Ex is appealing against?

Both people I spoke to from CMS and the Appeals team indicated that appeal is almost certain to fail as Maintenance has been calculated using Tax Returns prepared by professional accountants. I have ran the numbers through the Online Calculator and it produced to the same figure as what CMS have calculated.

I am aware that CMS don't have jurisdiction over foreign earnings, but my intention is to pay the amount CMS have calculated as earnings from foreign employer are almost same as that when I was working for a UK registered Company when working overseas.

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