Separation + moving to a different continent with DC

[roadtohapiness]

Hi all!

I don't know how to start but I really want to separate/divorce from my husband. The reasons go beyond the fact that we do not get along well.

One of the main reasons is his porn addiction which lead him to spend our money on livecams, signed up for threesome websites (without my knowledge or even mention to this!). The list carries on. We have got a lovely 2 years old daughter -which loves him very much. He's behaviour towards women (from his mother to me) is just disgusting. We fight a lot, he even lifted and threw our glass table on the floor
Breaking it. I often lose my temper and was physically aggressive towards him. The situation is just a total mess.

I really want to leave him but the issue is our DD. I am from another country and I am not British citizen (I only have a leave to remain spouse visa valid for 2,5 years). Our DD has dual citizenship. Of course when I leave I want to go back to my home country. My family is very wealthy, I have a very good degree (I.e law, medicine, I don't want to give in to many details). My DD would benefit from a private education in the best school all her life, private health care, comfortable house and a great life style.

My husband does not accept a separation and would never agree with our DD living in another country.

We have a mortgage in both our names and I said I would just leave and not demanding anything but he said I'm not going anywhere.

Please does anyone have any experience or know something about my chances to take my child abroad with me? Would I be forced to live in England with my DD? Many thanks! Xx

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Your chances are very slim. You can't take her without either your ex agreeing, or a court deciding that it's the best thing for her. Extremely unlikely. Are you from a Hague convention country?

You might have a better chance of trying to stay, separated. Get very good, specialized legal advice.

[user1483387154]

Talk to a lawyer. If you take your child without permission you may get charged with kidnapping.
I'm in a similar situation and have to make the other country my home now.

[roadtohapiness]

Yes, I am from a Hague convention country.

It would be devastating for me to remain in England. Both my DD and I would have an amazing life if we're back to my home country.

To start I would not even afford to pay rent as I am a stay at home mum and I never validated my qualification here (long and expensive process, having a small child and also husband earns enough for us all).

[MrsTerryPratchett]

The reality is that you probably will not get permission to take her. And without it, you'll be forced to return her. And there could be extremely bad consequences.

Can you try to get your qualifications done before you separate?

[roadtohapiness]

MrsTerry

Not really but what for? I've got no one in England so remaining here would only benefit him. I really want a way out with my DD and for me would be devastating being forced to stay. Is that even possible? I'm on a spouse visa, he's my sponsor so if we separate my visa would revoke.

Of course taking my child without his consent is not an option as I am fully aware of the implications of that.

[HollyBollyBooBoo]

Talk to a solicitor ASAP. What do you think your husband will say? Will he fight for your child to stay in UK?

Ultimately a court can make the decision with the Judge taking the welfare of the child as the most important part, physical, emotional, educational elements will all play a part.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Get legal advice. Seriously. There's no point us saying anything.

However IME, and I'm an immigrant, I've never seen a court rule that a child should be removed from their home, father and country. I've seen women forced back though.

[ratatatatouille]

Please get legal advice from a solicitor who is able to look at all your circumstances. Whatever you do, do not leave the country without consent of the other parent.

Parents have been allowed to relocate abroad with their children as long as it’s in their children’s best interests. You will have to show how you intend to maintain the relationship between your child and his/her father. The older the child the harder it is, as I understood it. You will most likely have to go to court if you are unable to reach an agreement, a judge will decide if the children will be better staying here or relocating with you. It is not a quick process, it can take anything up to a year from the point you make an application to court to the point judgement is handed down. And expect it to be very slow, emotionally draining and expensive 30k+.

[LinoleumBlownapart]

Your visa will probably be revoked, there's a case of a separated Chilean father fighting to live in the UK, as he had to leave his kids in the UK but was deported once he'd separated from his wife. I can't remember his name or if anything has changed. My husband was deported from the UK over a mix up when his two year spouse visa expired. So be careful that visa doesn'the expire before you find out if you can take your daughter with you. The home office don't care about families or the best interests of children. I just hope, in this case, that works in your favour sorry I can't be of more help.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

And goodness knows what will happen with Brexit. Presumably you could have gone to the European Court about remaining (right to family life) but who knows now.

Good lawyer. Now.

[ratatatatouille]

Linoleum that’s insane.

[LinoleumBlownapart]

Also does her other passport state that she can travel with only one parent? My children have dual nationality, we had to both signed notorised declarations so that our children could go to the UK with only me. Some countries are very strict about this. We can't even travel within the country without showing the children's documents and travel restrictions, so even your own country might have restrictions on you returning without her father's permission.

[NorthernSpirit]

“remaining here will only benefit him”.....

Would it not benefit your daughter as well retaining a relationship with her dad.

Your post feels very you focused. Look at it this way. If it was the other way around, how would you feel if he moved away and took his daughter to another country. Wound you be happy about that?

[roadtohapiness]

Northern

I see your point but definitely it would not be good for my daughter. If I'm forced to stay here I don't have any family around, I don't have money to pay rent. We would leave in very a poor condition. And the most important fact is that I do not want to stay here at all.


However if she moves away with me she'll have the best life, benefit from private education in the best school, living in a great house, just a totally different reality.

[roadtohapiness]

Thanks for all the replies. They helped me a lot to realise it will not be easy.

So basically I came to England to live with my husband, had a child with him. He becomes an awful person, spends our money with online prostitutes and I basically need to live in a country which I don't have anyone or anything so he can get to see how daughter probably once a week! And then she would live with an unemployed mother, in a shit bedroom or maybe even on benefits, with no family around, no comfort when she could have everything money can possibly buy. This is all very disheartening and scary. I need to act carefully.

[Butterfly44]

If you're married you are possibly entitled to half his income, pension, more even... so you won't be destitute on benefits.
Secondly yes, I'm afraid you won't be able to go back with DD to your home country, but I don't know what that means for your status here in the UK if you are not working. My priority would be to finish qualifying and get a job to remain here, as the reality is sadly looking like you may be deported and the DD stays here. Like one poster says, they don't care about breaking up families. It's about rules. You need a solicitor ASAP

[Walkingdeadfangirl]

Your family are very wealthy, cant they give you the money to get your qualifications validated? I agree with PPs you will have a very slim chance of being allowed to take your DD away from her father to another continent.

[AuntieStella]

You have a wealthy family, a wealthy (but obnoxious) spouse, and qualifications.

You need to start planning how you will support yourself here. If you need to get in-date with qualifications/licence to practice etc, start doing it now. You can change your current total dependence on your DH, train or retrain, find a job. Work out how much you need to live separately and independently, then plan how you get to that point.

Dreaming of running back home is comforting, but really is not going to be the answer. You cannot move your DD abroad without his consent, but you can move out once you can afford it.

Look in to the timelines of naturalisation as well.

[silvercuckoo]

How cooperative your ex-husband is likely to be in case of separation? It is pretty much a decisive factor here.

Your biggest problem is the spouse visa. It becomes invalid not when you officially divorce, but when your British spouse decides you are no longer a couple and informs the Home Office (even if you are still living together, and even if the divorce proceedings are not initiated yet). If you don't leave the country within the prescribed period (14 days + 28 days grace period, I think, leaving your child behind), you become an overstayer and automatically ineligible for any other type of visa. I went through a two year ordeal and around £20K in fees and legal costs to secure a discretionary leave to remain. You cannot simply switch to a work visa in-country too, even if you are a high earner.

I have two young British children with a British father who himself moved overseas very shortly after the divorce and had almost no direct contact, and I still was not allowed by the family court to move back to my home country. Leave to remove is a relatively rare decision to be granted. In my case there was no contact with the father, no family at all in the UK, I had no recourse to benefits as a non-EU passport holder and had to work 70 hour weeks just to keep us afloat and pay for childcare, accruing a lot of debt along the way. The court was not impressed, as potential re-establishment of contact with the father and paternal family was deemed more important (and I must say that in two years that passed since the decision, there were no substantial attempts made at all).
Your ex will be granted full legal aid to oppose your petition, if he claims that there is a risk of child abduction.
One of the big problems you will have is that family courts and the Home Office / immigration tribunals are totally disjoint in their approach to the matter, and do not communicate AT ALL. The family court will be deaf to explanations about your immigration status and difficulties, the judge won't have any knowledge of this area of law at all, and they won't grant custody to a parent with a precarious immigration status. The Home Office will require solid evidence before they consider that you have established "family life" with your British child. So in some sense, it is a vicious circle - you can't have custody until you have immigration sorted out, and you won't be considered a genuine parent for immigration purposes unless there is a court decision (or a voluntary agreement between the parents) to evidence regular family life.

Your, and your DD's, best bet at the moment is probably to brace and see it through until you are eligible to ILR through marriage, as unpleasant as it is at the moment (a couple of years max). It is probably not what you would like to hear, but believe me, that is how it looks from the other side.

[Leavesorange]

If it's damaging for you and child then it would make a strong case as to why you had to flee to home country.

The hauge convention is a long and costly process and in a lot of cases the child is settled, in your case your own country and as I've seen before ruled the child stay in mothers own county with mother.

It would take years and A LOT of money for your husband to order her back. Even then it's not guaranteed if the judge see the child is settled and happy.

[user1492863869]

Leavesorange, if she gets stopped at a port trying to flee with her children without permission she will be in serious trouble. If she gets arrested in her home country and extradited back her, she will be in trouble.

[Monday55]

What country are you from? can you not go to your embassy and see what they say on the matter ? Maybe get your child a dual citizenship.

[silvercuckoo]

If she gets arrested in her home country and extradited back her, she will be in trouble.
She won't get extradited, she will be left behind and will have to secure some sort of access to her daughter independently as an overseas parent. The children will be returned swiftly to the UK if her home country is a member of the Hague convention (in cases I know it took up to 3 months - and there are child recovery agencies who specialise on cases like this).

It is very bad advice.

[Solasshole]

I get that your situation is a bit shit OP, but think very carefully about how this will affect your child in the future before you do anything. My mum took me away from my father to another country and I will never forgive her for it. She did it for extremely selfish reasons, only focused on herself and hurting my dad during the divorce. I get my dad has his faults but no more than any other normal person and he was/is a really good dad.

My dad decided not to fight to have me stay in the country we were living in at the time as he didn't think he'd win and that if he tried she would also take my sibling with her too. Court ruled sibling would stay with dad and I'd go with my mum because that's totally in the best interest of the children, would love to meet the fuckwit who thought that ruling was a good idea And yes my sibling and I both have significant issues now even as adults due to what happened.