Ex thinks he can collect at tea time and drop back straight after breakfast and this counts as overnight

[Onlymeeeeee]

Just that really, i can't find any details or recommendations on how long an overnight stay should be. The mediator said that it means 24 hours responsibility, so pick up after tea, drop back just before tea next day? Has anyone got a "proper" definition of this please?

[SickofThomasTheTank]

When my mum has my daughter overnight it's tea time until after breakfast? She doesn't see her Dad.

[Onlymeeeeee]

Does your mum pay maintenance as non resident parent though?

[Pinkandpurplehairedlady]

My ex does this one day a week. He picks them up when he’s finished work and then drops them off at school the following morning. It means he gets to do bedtime with them which they like. I’m not sure why it wouldn’t count as an overnight?

[SickofThomasTheTank]

Well no of course she doesn't! 🙄🤦🏼‍♀️

Hardly the point? No need for goady replies to people trying to help you is there?

[Ohyesiam]

Does the arrangement not suit you? What would you rather he did?

[SouthernComforts]

I would appreciate that from someone babysitting as a favour. It's not good enough as a parents only contribution for the week. In my opinion.

[AnneLovesGilbert]

It’s overnight. So for CMS purposes, it’s overnight.

[RandomMess]

Sleeping at his house counts as overnight for CMS calculations.

Is he basically not interested in actually looking after DC?

[MumOfTwoMasterOfNone]

Likewise having children all day for breakfast, lunch and dinner doesn't count for anything with regards to maintenance because there is no 'overnight'. Even if the costs of keeping contact are substantial, but the RP says it's been broken for even one week out of the year, there are no allowances.
There are winners and losers both ways, but the CMS has so many flaws IMO. It is what it is.
Does he have any other contact?

[MyRelationshipIsWeird]

It’s the very bare minimum he could do and still have it count isn’t it.

My ex does similar - I collect DCs from school and the come back home with me, he gets them when he finishes work which may be 4.30-6pm and then drops one of them at school the next morning, but as one starts later, they come home and walk from here, so I don’t get a full evening or a full morning off. To be fair as my DCs are older now and pretty self sufficient it’s not a problem but it does grate that this is counted as 1/7 of the parenting required in a week for maintenance purposes.

[Onlymeeeeee]

Sorry you see it as goady, i was checking if we're comparing like for like, i mean, 14 hours is pretty good if its helpful to give resident parent a break, for free but 14 hours if it means you pay 1/7th less maintenance, not so good.

And if the only time you see your children, they're actually asleep for 9.5 of the 14 hours, i can't quite get my head round it?

Does CMS define overnight anywhere is what i was trying to find out, as to me, reducing your cms payment by 1/7 whilst still expecting the resident parent to do the school run the morning after your "overnight" seems a bit off.

[upsideup]

My friend has his children weekends and one day a week from 6 and then takes them to school the next morning and in terms of CMS its overnight.

[Onlymeeeeee]

To answer some of the questions, no he doesn't see them at weekends, no he doesn't seem to want to actually look after them. He expects them to bring clothes with them and bring their washing back to me.

My life since having children has never been about what suits me, I've always had to put them first because he wouldn't. I don't think it would make any difference to me except in the longer school holidays because I would be paying for childcare for 4 days a week and he would not pay as he would take his days off to spend with them.

[Onlymeeeeee]

Obviously i have been misled at mediation with him being told he should pick up from school and drop back to school not 6pm to 8.30am at my house - so i still have to school run.

[SecondaryConfusion]

If he has them overnight he should drop them to school / before school club in the morning. It’s hardly a break for you if you have to be at home for him to collect them and at home the next morning to take them to school.

Does he not have them on a Friday night or at the weekend? He can’t be seeing much of them ifall he does is bedtime and morning drop to you - not exactly a stellar parent.

[TheSunnySide]

Oh dear. This does sound hard and barely gives you a break. No doubt you are also facilitating it more than you should in terms of Making sure they have what they need etc?

It does sound Like he is doing the bare minimum. Was this what he was like when you were together?

[SecondaryConfusion]

Cross post. That so pretty pants parenting from him, especially of mediation was about him having one proper overnight - from school finish to school drop off.

Do you work? Can he not arrange work to get back early one day or arrange for after school childcare and pick up directly from there?

[RandomMess]

I thought as much, what a useless man child. No he should be having 24 hours so on the holidays he should pay and sort childcare!!

Back to mediation? How long do you think he will bother actually keeping up contact?

I would tell him to sort out breakfast club/childcare as you won't be there in the mornings anymore...

[Onlymeeeeee]

I've been warned that contact will probably fade out if he doesn't feel like he can control me using it. My job is set up to start after school run and finish before pick up, as he was never reliable to do it himself.

I feel a bit cross at being misled on the expectation of what is an overnight, but generally the less time the children spend with him, the better for their overall emotional wellbeing, he doesn't exactly role model life skills or treating people kindly, but stays carefully this side of the neglect /emotional abuse line.

[SecondaryConfusion]

Ok, in that case I think you have to accept that he is a crap father and you can’t force him to do a proper overnight.

It’s really crap that he is doing the minimum and only to get out of paying you maintenance.

[DinahMo]

I’d expect him to collect from school (or arrange after-school club/childminder until he can collect, if he really really can’t arrange flexi hours so he can collect) and then drop off to school next morning (or breakfast club etc). He should keep 1 set of uniforms at his so they have fresh clothes the next morning, and he has a whole week to launder the ones they came wearing so they’re ready for the next visit. They should have their own casual clothes/pyjamas at his too, which stay there.

That way you’d be childfree from school drop off until school pick up the next day.

[RandomMess]

Or you can force the issue by not being available in the morning before school (staying at friends) if you'd rather he stopped contact is his parenting is borderline abusive?

[ginnyweeze]

My stbex has left home, no contact with kids and wants half of everything (when I’ve earned 70%) including my pension. Tell me how THAT is fair? My kids don’t want to see him!

[NewMe18]

Ex does this on a Tuesday, but also has a full 24hrs on the weekend.

Can’t say it bothers me, when they were younger dinner/bed and the school run were a nightmare, happy to hand that off to their dad once a week!

[ems137]

My exH used to do even less than that and CSA (as it was called then) still counted it as an over night.

He would collect them at 7pm, already in their PJs, and I would have to pick them up after my night shift at 7.15am. The only thing he provided them with was a bed.