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Cancel FDR due to abuse

(20 Posts)
gettinggreener Mon 25-Sep-17 21:56:10

I was wondering whether anyone might have experience of this. I am realizing more and more that my husband does not care about crushing the last remnants of our relationship even for the sake of our children. History is some violence a long time ago, loads of emotional and verbal abuse, then long term adultery. He is being horrendous throughout this process. He doesn't move on any point, just keeps re-stating his position until we move to get things moving. I don't want to go into an FDR and to be encouraged to negotiate with him, it will be lose all the way for me. I would rather let a judge decide. He threatened me on Sat that he could make things much worse and ever since then I have a sinking feeling in my stomach. It is soul destroying going through this and knowing that there will not be a shred of goodwill left at the end. Our poor kids. My question is can I cancel the FDR and request to move to Final Hearing? FDR would not be from an equal standpoint as he has been conducting abuse for years and he will not be there to reach any middle or common ground.

MrsBertBibby Mon 25-Sep-17 22:10:57

Do you or he have representation?

gettinggreener Mon 25-Sep-17 22:28:05

Hi yes we both do. We have been moving through the process but it is like treacle. It has taken weeks to agree a valuer as he rejected everyone who had been proposed. He won't agree to anything we suggest but wants 100% of his points in. My solr has tried conceding points to move it on in desperation but it is lose all the way and he is holding us to randsom. So I figure that the FDR won't be worth it.

VanillaSugar Mon 25-Sep-17 22:33:01

I'm sorry, I don't have any advice to give but I didn't want to read and run. flowers🍫🍷

MrsBertBibby Mon 25-Sep-17 22:47:45

You can't sidestep the FDR, and if you are both represented you won't be negotiating face to face anyway.

Really horrid cases do settle at FDR, if everyone works at it. I knocked an absolute swine of a case out at FDR only last week. Really doubted we would make it, but we did, despite the most stubborn tosser ever as husband.

Make your fears known to your advocate. Remember you aren't obliged to settle but listen to advice. Good luck.

gettinggreener Mon 25-Sep-17 23:22:48

Thanks MrsBertBibby I thought that I read that in cases of domestic violence you could skip it? But maybe I got that wrong.
I think that it will
- cost a lot of money
- be soul destroying as he is just plain nasty to deal with
- he will take all of my arguments away, analyse them clinically (since he has no emotion) and take them apart one by one before the final hearing. So it will be an information gathering excercise for him.
- but I genuinely think now he won't concede on anything and I don't want to negotiate with him even if not directly face to face. I can barely bring myself to read his emails to my solr.

CaptainM Tue 26-Sep-17 00:09:51

Sounds very much like my stbxh. Don't think skipping FDR was ever an option. He didn't budge at FDR despite judge's indication of what split they would order if they were to hear our case at final hearing. We're now headed for FH. As MrsBertBibby said, you wouldn't even have to listen to him or speak to him. We were mostly in separate rooms and only came in to give judge (via counsel) periodic updates. Hang in there. You won't have to accept anything you're not happy with at FDR. If anything, it helped reassure me that I was being very reasonable.

WellWhoKnew Tue 26-Sep-17 00:51:02

I skipped FDR - not my choice. However, it's generally frowned upon and shouldn't happen. Best you do it if you have legal reps as you don't have to see him in person. In a FH he'll (and you) would have to take the stand. I found that horribly traumatising and would run a mile than ever doing it again.

gettinggreener Tue 26-Sep-17 07:06:36

Thanks CapitainM and Wellwhoknew. I suppose the issue is that I feel strongly that it willl go to final hearing anyway. So the FDR will just be extra cost, extra stress and a chance for him to hear all of my arguments up front. Yes the FH sounds tough but it sounds as though I willl be doing it anyway. If you don't mind me asking Wellwhoknew how did you skip it? Don't get into it if you would rather not. Thanks.

childmaintenanceserviceinquiry Tue 26-Sep-17 07:21:46

Your situation was mine at every single step of the way. The red flags included as you say refusing to agree to any proposal or suggestion made. We ended up with many valuers for the FMH valuation. It backfired on him because the final value was greater that what I had proposed originally. Any mediation was beyond a waste of time. But my family lawyer was useless at dealing with the abuse side (there was no documented violence). We are still disputing some fees now. They were not able to be strategic enough to deal with this. My fees were high 10's of £1000s just dealing with the onslaught of correspondence. His would be into the £100's of £1000s. He had to win at all cost. I compromised and compromised. It made no difference. So use the red flags as a warning.

I did finally end up with a reasonable settlement and that included not even having 50% of the assets. But he then started on the DC so he unpicked the informal arrangement for that, argued over school choice, used the results from that to then go back to court over the financial bits. In the end this year I went into court, told the judge that I was unable to deal with the process anymore and walked out with nothing. My ex is a substantial higher rate tax payer, I was just returning to work and yet he was able to convince the court that he was on the breadline.

So my advice, as a very angry participant in the charade that is the Family Court, is to maximise the asset split in your favour and ask for a clean financial break, despite DC. Then formalise arrangements and set up separate email and phone numbers for contact. It works OK-ish. He still tries to cause trouble with school and I just deal with that every time.

I have started to badger Womens Aid to pick this non co-operation as one of their campaigns. For me it is a huge red flag that co-parenting will be nigh on impossible. I have a few more years to go.

gettinggreener Tue 26-Sep-17 07:58:38

Thanks childm I am sorry to hear your story but you seem to have figured out the best plan for your mental health. Thanks for your advice I will be speaking to my legal team today and red flags is a good way to put it. We have spent tens of thousands already on correspondence and achieved nothing.

babybarrister Tue 26-Sep-17 10:27:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

gettinggreener Tue 26-Sep-17 10:48:59

Thanks babybarrister. However if I am understanding correctly then presumably the stern words and any direction from the judge can then be fully ignored by my husband, so he can go back into the negotiating room and still say that he is not moving from his position? So a waste of time, energy and money. It is the negotiation bit I don't want it is soul destroying. Plus he will find out our arguments and twist them around by the final hearing. So if final hearing happening anyway best to go straight there?

babybarrister Tue 26-Sep-17 11:07:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsBertBibby Tue 26-Sep-17 11:14:01

He will know your arguments for trial anyway before trial.

Look, you can not avoid an FDR unless the judge agrees, which is unlikely based on what you have said. Asking the judge would require an additional hearing, and if you lost, as would be likely, you'd likely get stuck with his costs. So you will have to grit your teeth and do it.

Have faith in your lawyer. We are good at getting deals. I got one recently with an unrepresented husband whose response to each proposal was to yell "Fuck off and tell her she can fuck off and all" across the court canteen. I had to tell him he could swear his way into the cells if he liked, but I'd been sworn at with much more inventiveness by convicted murderers so I wasn't going to be upset by a weedy salesman with a poor grasp of obscenity and all the menace of a bag of lettuce.

We got there, eventually. Your lawyer is there to absorb the crap and get you out of your marriage without a trial if possible. Hide behind them, let them try, you may well be pleasantly surprised.

babybarrister Tue 26-Sep-17 11:47:30

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsBertBibby Tue 26-Sep-17 11:55:52

You have to watch those older ones. I had a very respectable lady in her sixties grab me by the wrists and start kicking me in the shins, so enraged was she by my client's proposals. You don't expect that kind of nonsense in Guildford!

babybarrister Tue 26-Sep-17 11:59:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

gettinggreener Tue 26-Sep-17 12:13:04

Thanks MrsBertBibby and Babybarrister I hope you don't mind but I have Pm'd my replies as I need to stay anonymous. If it doesn't suit to reply further no problem and thanks so much for your advice thus far. It is very useful to hear it from my legal teams viewpoint they really are great but I just feel that what I am up against is too much.

greenberet Wed 27-Sep-17 22:25:02

Getting sorry you are having to go through this - I know first hand exactly how you feel. My outcome was not good I totally get childm's situation

Childm I am interested in what you are working on with WA - I too felt the whole court process was a farce and got severly let down by my legal team who didn't believe me when I told them what the x would do. My bill was also 10s of £100s and they ditched me 6 weeks before my FH after I started asking too many questions. They used my MH to their advantage and I came away feeling abused by them as well as my x.

I have made a formal complaint. I am still picking up the pieces - my kids are being abused still by their DF - co parenting - what's this? In fact I remember posting 2.5 years ago saying how do you co parent with someone who refuses to engage.

My situation has been played out on MN every step of the way - I contacted WA myself several times at breaking point.

My x too highly regarded professionally - very public profile in his field - but paying a fucking pittance for his kids after convincing court his business was going down the pan.

I so get where you are coming from. I knew I was posting on here for a reason maybe this is it - I have more than enough documentation to show what these fuckers are really like - the abuse is insidious. It needs to be recognised and these men need to be accountable.

I have been under adult MH due to this - I'm not stupid but I did not know my marriage was abusive until it ended - my judge even said I am intelligent - even so I have been abused in the most dispicable way first by the x and secondly by the legal profession I paid to help me.

I may pm you

Sorry getting for taking over your post

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