can we agree our financial settlement without filing Form Es?

[HenriettaBarnet]

I've posted this in legal matters too, but posting here just in case someone sees it.

H is saying he doesn't want to file his Form E because it would mean declaring income he doesn't want to declare (yes, I know...).

He is saying that if he does declare it, then that would mean he pays more tax and less money would come to me. He is self-employed in anycase, and doesn't have any accounts as he only became self-employed this year, so there are no records of his income, just what he estimates will come in. For some reason he is reluctant to put estimates on there. (I think he would leave some big jobs off actually, which wouldn't help me either).

He has agreed to pay me quite a large amount - I think I would not get awarded this by a court.

I'm happy with that amount - just to get all of this sorted and him out of my life.

Is there any other route we can take to finalise this without doing Form Es?

Thanks

[littlegreen66]

You don't need a form E - we just filled in D81 - but you do have to disclose income, assets, debts and pensions etc. No proof was required, but you sign to say it's accurate and a court would take a dim view of being deliberately misled.

I'm not even going to get into a discussion about what sounds like tax evasion!

[littlegreen66]

PS - we also agreed everything between ourselves, filled in the form and just had it sealed by the judge - no court appearances.

[HenriettaBarnet]

My solicitor won't advise me without seeing his Form E, so he has to file it with her at least because I want some advice from her on the settlement.

Yes, he's without morals really. as well as the whole tax thing, he's lying about his income to me, but I've found out about it from other sources. He probably wouldn't put the higher amounts on the Form e either (he's only estimating future income because he's self-employed) so if he had to file the Form E at court, I'd be awarded a lower amount based on his estimated lower income. I'm happy with the amount he previously offered me, but won't rely on him which is why I need the court order.

I need to get shot of him and don't have thousands for the long drawn out court process (or I'd use it, tbh) which is why I'm thinking about the form D81 route.

[littlegreen66]

Surely your solicitor will advise on the basis of the D81? ExH and I used online solicitors as it was truly amicable, but when my DH was divorcing quite acrimoniously with proper solicitors they still just used the D81. If not, maybe time for a new solicitor? It's surely in your best interests to go with the relatively generous offer on the table while it's still on the table!
Good luck.

[HenriettaBarnet]

oh I don't know whether she would. She's advised Form E because of his history of lying about stuff. But actually he would lie on the Form E too.

maybe I'll check with her.

[HenriettaBarnet]

sorry, he'd lie on the Form D81 too. (although he's said he won't perjure himself).

[STIDW]

Non disclosure is grounds to have a divorce settlement set aside in the future. That means if your husband doesn't disclose his income any court order settling the finances isn't worth the paper it's written on.

[LotusLight]

My solicitor (Withers who are quite good) did not require form Es, not because we were hiding money but because we had only joint accounts, I did both our tax returns, we each knew 100% what the other earned, had in pensions, had in savings and everything was open and joint so what would be the point in filling out such a form in such a case? We agreed a financial consent order which the court sealed before decree absolute.

[HenriettaBarnet]

hi STIDW, yes I know - but I just can't get him to tell me the truth about his income. I only know some of the truth because I've seen something that I shouldn't have. So I know he's going to earn a lot more than he told me. Unfortunately, the time he moved out coincided with the time he got a new job (freelance) and a new bank account so I have no idea what he's earning.

he's said he'll just earn less rather than give me anymore money, and I really can't see that the Form E is going to help the situation as he only has estimates of future earning, not a track record.

LotusLife (I work with Withers a fair bit fwiw ) unfortunately I don't know anything about my H's new job. i think that the amount he has offered me is ok, and if I get the house then Ill be happy. If it transpires he is really really wealthy and lied to me about his salary then maybe I can get the order set aside in the future. But I just want to get shot of him at the moment.

I've emailed my solicitor and asked if she will accept a form D81 not a Form E.

[Letitgoletitgo]

Not sure about the disclosures etc, but be careful what you agree to unless it is a lump sum! My ex and I had an agreement for monthly maintenance which was a large amount but meant I agreed not to touch his pension or go after his huge bonuses, and house equity was split 50/50. 2 years after divorce and he's screwed me over and reduced maintenance to half of original agreement. Nothing I can do as is still just about csa minimum. Court finance orders are redundant after a year. X

[STIDW]

Completing Form E is voluntary unless one of you starts court proceedings. If you agree the court requires the simplified disclosure, Form D81 (Statement of Information) to be submitted along with a draft consent order to be ratified. So your husband will need to disclose his assets and income.

[STIDW]

Letitgoletitgo wrote;

Not sure about the disclosures etc, but be careful what you agree to unless it is a lump sum! My ex and I had an agreement for monthly maintenance which was a large amount but meant I agreed not to touch his pension or go after his huge bonuses, and house equity was split 50/50. 2 years after divorce and he's screwed me over and reduced maintenance to half of original agreement. Nothing I can do as is still just about csa minimum. Court finance orders are redundant after a year.

Just to clarify. A consent order settles the overall finances on divorce. Once ratified by the court the division of capital cannot be varied.

An order for spouse maintenance can be varied by the court if circumstances change. The amount paid can be increased, decreased or the order may end or be terminated. The term of the order can be extended unless there is a bar or reduced.

Normally Child Maintenance Service is responsible for child maintenance and the courts have no powers to impose an order for child maintenance or very it. The exceptions are when an order predates March 2003, one parent lives abroad, there are step children or children over 18 in education. However child maintenance can be agreed in a consent order. The order is then legally binding and enforceable although after 12 months either parent may apply to the CMS, the CMS carries out an assessment and notifies the court so the order eases to have any effect a couple of months later with regard to child maintenance.

[HenriettaBarnet]

the solicitor has filed an intention to seek ancillary relief form (I think - is that the Form A) and we do have a court hearing date for the first hearing. I also have to draft lots of documents like a chronology of events etc.

However since then, H has come to his senses (and realised we don't have ?10k to spend on solicitors costs) and we've now reached agreement on our settlement which we are both happy with. I am keen to avoid that whole process and associated costs. We are happy to file a Form D81 and draft consent order instead.

H is still quibbling over the Form e. My solicitor has said she will stop acting for me unless he files it.

I am wondering now what the process is. If he completes a form e and sends it to the solicitor, will she then complete a form d81 and submit that to Court for the hearing date? Or is she obliged to file the Form E in court too?

I am getting extremely stressed about this. My solicitor is getting cross with me, and H is refusing to engage at all with this process (apart from to agree the settlement with me, which is quite good progress I suppose).

[HenriettaBarnet]

letitgo, that's quite worrying about the child maintenance. I have agreed a monthly child maintenance sum with H, but it would bankrupt me if he reduced that in the future.

More stress!

[Letitgoletitgo]

Yep Henrietta, that's what I'm currently dealing with - have a post on the loan parents page but seem to currently be being slated as a greedy cow. In my situation, my ex is a V high earner, over £100k. We agreed a level of maintenance that I was happy with, on the understanding I would accept 50/50 split on house sale etc, not chase his pension, etc etc. Yes, this was a high amount and above csa minimum. But we were together 12 years, I'd given up my career and had been left with a 22 month old ds and 3 week old dd. All signed off by court etc.
A year in, he loses job (huge redundancy payout though so continues to pay maintenance for a couple more months) Then gets new job so agree new amount - 1/3 less than original payments. Now, a further year later, he has dropped a further 25% because he doesn't like the fact my dp has bought (via a loan!) a new car #nothing to do with me and my money, or kids?!) He is now paying half what was agreed 2 years ago. Just about what csa says, so nothing I can do about it. My advice - take all you can upfront. In my exes case it is obviously once a cheat, always a cheat.