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Can she do this?

(13 Posts)
squashandsqueeze Sat 13-Jun-15 14:41:26

Posting on behalf of a friend.

He's been separated a couple of years and his dd lives with ex wife. He has regular contact, they talk every day and she stays with him a couple of nights a week. They have a very good relationship.

He is originally from another country and his family all still live abroad. They have been unable to visit for a while now and unfortunately it will remain that way for the foreseeable future. He desperately wants to take his dd to see his family, get to know them, see where he grew up, learn about the country and the culture etc.

However, his ex is adamant that she will not allow him to take his dd abroad.

Is she allowed to do this? He is on her birth certificate, he pays regular maintenance, would do anything for his dd, tries his best to keep things amicable with the ex.

cannotseeanend Sat 13-Jun-15 17:27:18

Yes she is. There is skype these days.
The father can apply to court to get permission.
Which country are the relatives in?

Micah Sat 13-Jun-15 17:33:14

Yes she can. He would need to go to court for permission.

In the same vein though, he can refuse to allow her to go abroad wth his ex. Does she know that?

kittensinmydinner Sat 13-Jun-15 18:31:32

Actually, if he has Parental responsibility (on birth certificate as father after 1993) then he can take her abroad but for no more than 28 days. If mother wishes to stop it, she has to apply to the court for a specific steps order and show the court why he shouldn't take her out of the country , otherwise he doesn't need her permission.

Micah Sat 13-Jun-15 18:42:20

What's all this about needing a letter of permission at airports then? Or is it just he hasn't committed any crime if he takes her, but airport staff have the right to prevent him going if he can't produce evidence he has permission from all parties with parental responsibilities?

I suppose he can take her and risk the airport thing. Does he have her passport though?

squashandsqueeze Sat 13-Jun-15 18:53:45

kittens that is good to know.

Unfortunately he doesn't have her passport, his ex does.

Micah Sat 13-Jun-15 19:08:00

Does she go abroad with her mum if she has a passport?

I don't think she can have it both ways. Either they can both take her, or neither can.

Do you think she has any reason to prevent him with him having family over there? Is she worried he might take her there to live? There are more knowledgeable people than me but I think certain countries are able to prevent this. If he is from one of those countries then her worries aren't valid.

Headdoctor Sat 13-Jun-15 21:33:11

kittens that is not correct.

PatriciaHolm Sun 14-Jun-15 00:57:22

Kittens is only correct if he has a residence order in his favour. If he does, then yes he can go for up to a month. If he doesn't, then he (assuming he has PR) needs the mothers permission. If she has a residence order, she can take the child abroad for up to a month without his permission, though it would be a good idea to have a signed letter to give permissions.

He can go to court to get permission though, it shouldn't be too difficult assuming there is no evidence to assume he won't come back, etc.

honeysucklejasmine Sun 14-Jun-15 01:00:04

Is it to a country where she might have reasonable doubts about him bringing her back?

If I was her, I'd be thinking that and saying no.

cannotseeanend Sun 14-Jun-15 07:21:57

You can now see why children are not allowed to have more than one British passport at a time and a few of them you find logged when there are restrictions on travel (this relies on the court system correctly informing UK Border Force) so that a suspect parent cannot try and flee to those countries where children often never return - countries with Arab associations and the Indian subcontinent are the places British children are taken to the most and never return.

LotusLight Sun 14-Jun-15 11:42:27

Is it a country which respects the British courts and will order the father to return the girl if there is a fight over his keeping her abroad or one where the national always keeps the children if the chidlren are taken? Japan eg I think is hard to get children back from and presumably places like Somalia and Yemen and probably Saudi.

STIDW Sun 14-Jun-15 21:43:54

The first thing is to try mediation. Unless someone has a Residence or Child Arrangement Order stating a child lives with them it's a criminal offence (s1 Child Abduction Act 1984) to take a child abroad without the consent of all those with Parental Responsibility for the child or permission from the court. Immigration in some countries (eg Mexico, Canada) may not admit children travelling with one parent unless there is written consent or a court order.

IF no agreement can be reached the last resort is to apply to court for a Specific Issue Order for permission to take the children abroad. Permission is usually granted unless there is evidence of a flight risk and the country concerned isn't a signatory to the Hague Convention on international child abduction.

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