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Divorce and Pensions split

(29 Posts)
Kazanova Sun 31-May-15 11:08:35

I have been through DV for last 8 years. married for 17 years. 2 kids 10 and 14 years old . I have been a housewife for 10 years. But did have a part time job for 4 years. I worked in the city for many years and built up a pension pot with the companies I worked for. When I meet my husband I then joint a new company and a new pension scheme. I am currently unemployed now due to a housemove and am trying really hard to get a job and still be mum. However ehere we live jobs are rare and normally quite low in pay. My husband is making divorce very hard and wants to claim my pensions from the years I worked. We both own half a house in equity only as there is no mortgage. Im scared hes either going to walk away with my pension or more equity in the home. This would mean I have no where to live with the kids and either no pension for the future. Please could someone help?

cannotseeanend Sun 31-May-15 12:05:47

50/50 split of pensions is normal and you'd have to argue pretty hard for it to be more to you. Pensions are simply added up using CETV values, divided by 2, then whoever has the greater gives a percentage to make up to the other person that 50% division. It's as simple as that. Not worth arguing over.

As for home, that is different. Courts look at housing needs of each spouse, plus housing needs of children.

In a marriage there is no "mine" and "his/hers".

Kazanova Sun 31-May-15 12:51:59

Im angry that he should get what I worked all my life for and I have no money (assets) and I shall not be able to make up that 50% pension. Where he has a full time job with overtime, plus company pension and mony in the bank. He is not telling us what financial position his in. Hes only just gone into a pension scheme with work, would they take into account that he will have a pension one day?

caroldecker Sun 31-May-15 13:45:54

Kazanova they tend not to take future earnings into account. It is the assets at the end of the marriage that are initially viewed as 50:50. He will need to pay child maintenance.

cannotseeanend Sun 31-May-15 14:40:25

When you marry, you join together, everything legally becomes joint. It's the law and it's your vows.

I'm angry my inheritance was divided and my husband got 37% of it, I'm angry I put in the huge efforts to save and my husband took 37% of it, I'm angry my husband spent a huge 37% of savings I had unilaterally saved up but became joint assets on division, at least the judge deducted his silly spending of these from his 37%.

However, anger has no basis in the law and in the awful challenge a judge is given when one or both sides want more and cannot agree.

I gave up a career to look after 4 kids - like majority of women who've given 20 years of their lives, my future lack of earning capacity when you do this is not really relevant, it's what is in the past and now which is. Yes that also makes me angry.

I'm afraid if you take it to court, your chances are pretty slim in arguing your husband is not entitled to share pensions.

bobs123 Sun 31-May-15 14:53:33

Does he not have a pension that he would also have to split? Also you might have an argument that pre-marriage pension is non-matrimonial

Re house DC needs are paramount and you should get more than 50% of the house of they are with you.

Re future earnings potential - this should be taken into account. Depends on whether you want a clean break or to claim spousal support.

Going through something similar but my situation much like cannotseeanend

bobs123 Sun 31-May-15 14:58:09

You got 63% of all assets cannot ? I'd be happy with that as my ex is not even replying to my offer of 56% to me sad

HermioneWeasley Sun 31-May-15 15:00:35

If he's been working full time and paying into a pension, surely you'll be taking some of his pot, not the other way round?

cannotseeanend Sun 31-May-15 15:12:34

I offered my husband 40%. I have 4 young kids. I thought that was fair. The judge disagreed and gave him 37% and him 63%. There was an awful lot of pre-marriage assets and none from him. The judge did his best for the kids, it was the only part of this sordid nasty process which kept my spirits, but the law is the law, the division had to be as reasonable as possible. The kids might be really angry with me when they are adults that their dad got even 37%, but all I needed was a home and that meant 63% for me (for the kids).

bobs123 Sun 31-May-15 15:20:22

Yeah all assets other than his pension are mine pre marriage. I also have an inheritance I have not yet received. Good that the judge gave more than you were offering I guess. My kids over 18 now do all I can ask is maintenance while DD at uni. Will prob have to ask spousal which I didn't want to do.

Sorry hijacking a bit, but I did also give advice smile

Kazanova Sun 31-May-15 15:27:01

I have drawn up a will for the kids and put the house in equity only. Just to be safe. My solicitor did say shes going to keep us in the house till kids 18. Someone else said to me about premarital pensions, im going to look into that. I am annoyed that I had a good job in the city with good money but would give up again for the kids anytime. It seems we are penalized for being a good mum/parent. I am not lazy by far and will get a job but where we live its limited. Plus im in a rural location. I just hope he does not get the car too thats only worth about £600.

bobs123 Sun 31-May-15 15:34:39

I believe you have to own up to anything that is over £500. However if you put the reg into you might find it's worth less - esp with any scratches etc that would reduce it further.

Just imagine all the assets, pensions etc in one pot and start at 50/50. Then change as necessary depending on kids, income etc. See Section 25 of Matrimonial Causes Act to see what is taken into account

I was advised not to redo my will until after divorce as he could contest it if still married.

Kazanova Sun 31-May-15 15:34:51

Can i also ask, the 60% the court could award. If the court says for me to stay in house with kids till 18. Do I still get 60%

YonicScrewdriver Sun 31-May-15 15:35:29

The company (do you mean final salary?) pension scheme will have a value, as will your scheme.

bobs123 Sun 31-May-15 15:40:12

re the house - a friend of mine in the same situation was allowed to live in the house till the kids 18. The current value was taken and an agreement made to split any increase in value from then till youngest DC 18. so in effect you could be awarded 60% of the current value, and 50% of any future increase.

You have to able to demonstrate that you can afford to live there though!

Yes - as Yonic said - you have to both get the CETV of any pension you have. could take a few weeks to come through.

bobs123 Sun 31-May-15 15:43:47

Really the most important thing for women who are SAHMs with hs who work is to find out their pension.

One very big tip - do not listen to or believe anything he tells you if he is trying to make things difficult. Scare tactics! Ask your solicitor or google

Kazanova Sun 31-May-15 15:44:18

Ive done the will due to I have already put the house in equity, so he cant touch my side of the money. I am just so scared how me and the kids are going to survive

Kazanova Sun 31-May-15 15:56:25

We believe he has money and his trying to hide it or not show certain things on his bank statements. Even my solicitor is now suspicious of him. He keeps delaying everything which is boasting up my costs which is also making me angry as I have no money.

Kazanova Sun 31-May-15 16:01:47

I should add Im not money grabbing and never will be, but I need to look after the kids. He is just looking after him. I also need to take into account that even when the kids are 18 I still need to provide a roof. I need a car to be able to get the kids too and from school as they dont live near the schools. This would also mean that i cant get a job as Im taking the kids to school and getting to work would make me late every day. Im in a no win situtation. This is exactly where he wanted to see me. With nothing. But hes also doing that to the kids too.

bobs123 Sun 31-May-15 16:04:28

Sorry - don't understand "put the house in equity" Equity is the amount of money, say in a house, after everything owing is paid off.

Negative equity, for example, is where the house is worth less than the mortgage.

If you have paid off the mortgage on the house it is still an asset, just as the funds were which paid off the mortgage. sorry if I'm being dense - just learning this shit myself as I go along!

bobs123 Sun 31-May-15 16:09:07

You could ask for his statements going back, say 3 years.

You haven't said if he has a pension? Also is he working? If so he should be paying maintenance. If he isn't paying voluntarily go to CMS (if you're in England) Are you getting Child Tax Credits?

Why do you think he could get your car? As I said, DC are the most important thing to a judge, coming way before the parents needs

Kazanova Sun 31-May-15 17:14:04

He has a pension but only been in for 2 years

Kazanova Sun 31-May-15 17:16:41

As for house we have no mortgage

Kazanova Sun 31-May-15 17:35:09

Im sorry to hear people are going through all this too. I know how you feel and it hurts and makes you angry. Thanks bobs123 for your advice. Yes he works too and went into the pensions scheme when they announced it on TV. He has a basic but his overtime is more than is basic pay. He must take at least £2000 pm. Hes currently living 60 miles away from kids. I have a non molostation order on him too. He did not even send his daughter a birthday card or present

cannotseeanend Sun 31-May-15 18:18:43

Have thought of self representation? I had no choice as husband emptied all instant access bank accounts and no-one would accept payment other than in advance, so i did it all alone. Husband spent 25k on a lawyer and got nothing for it.

I found it very very straining, but in fact in the end my questionnaire was far better written than his lawyer's, my narrative kept to facts and was rather proud of it, considering you find little examples on the internet, so I just took out the relevant act and started writing, dividing into the section 25 headings. I cannot believe I did it all alone, but circumstances meant I had no choice and it saved me £25k! My husband had already taken 34.5k of family savings, the judge added that back on to his settlement, pretty bad value he got for his 25k, to get 100k of assets instead of the 150k of assets he went to court to demand. So in the end he actually got 100-25k spent = 75k!

You have to take all your emotions and stick them somewhere whilst doing this. Add up all assets, values of all things, car, house, furnishings, bank accounts. Then start at 50% each, then argue, using section 25 headings, why you should get more than 50% - that's how I argued I should get 60% and the judge in the end gave me 63%, that being the house and 37% being the savings and car. Then the pensions, as they are FUTURE, they are 50% each. Do all this on one A4 size paper, that's all you should need.

AVOID COURT, AVOID LAWYERs, it's so much cheaper.

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