Pension and funding

[Artbum]

My father has a work pension of £900 per month. He has recently been admitted to a care home by social services for assessment - he has quite advanced dementia.

My mum has just been told that she needs to pass over his entire pension to pay towards his care. Is this correct? My mum also has a workplace pension of a bit more. Both aged in their 80s. No assets or savings over than a small house.

[thesandwich]

@hatgirl can give more detail but please take advice from age uk.
Your df should also have a care assessment to see if nhs will fund nursing care if needed.
If your dm has a larger pension it may be correct.

[hatgirl]

He has recently been admitted to a care home by social services for assessment - he has quite advanced dementia

It's important to establish the nature of this placement precisely I'm afraid as slightly different charging policies could apply depending on whether it is classed as a short term or permanent placement.

Also, any social care assessments (not financial) should have been completed prior to him going into nursing care. If he is still undergoing care needs assessment then they need to rule out his eligibility for NHS fully funded care (really hard to get sadly) and any eligibility he may have for a funded nursing contribution (about £150 a week)

Unfortunately though the top and bottom of it is that if he is financially assessed by the local authority for 24 hour care then they do pretty much take all of a persons income apart from about £20 a week which is for toiletries/ newspapers etc.

If he only has £900 a month income then it's likely the local authority/nhs are still paying for more than half of his care costs even with that thrown into the pot. If he hasn't had his financial assessment yet then there may be some discretion available when it takes place around ongoing payments/costs he is has previously been responsible for making.

[Artbum]

We were told it was initially for 4 weeks. He cannot walk, use toilet or eat without help and cannot communicate. Told there will be a meeting this week to discuss permanent solution. My Mums work pension is less than half his and she will be have a massive income drop if this is the case. She was his carer but is now unable to carry on.

[Artbum]

What about the 50% disregard I read about on the age UK website? That would mean that my mum could retain part of it surely?

[hatgirl]

I'm still not clear sorry if your mum has formally been told this is what he will have to pay or if this is what she is assuming he will have to pay from the general information about residential charging she has been given?

If he hasn't had the financial assessment yet she needs to try not to worry too much until it takes place, as I said above councils have discretionary powers to allow some of your dad's pension to still go towards his (former) household costs, and I think there are also some pension disregards for married couples.

Councils are strapped for cash but they aren't in the business of leaving the remaining elderly partners destitute.

What was his route into care, was it from home or hospital?

[hatgirl]

Yes there is a pension disregard for married couples. When I read it initially I was assuming he had already had his financial assessment and this had been accounted for, on re-reading I see that's not actually been clarified!

[Artbum]

Thanks for your reply. They were both admitted to hospital following an accident. He was transferred to a care home following an assessment the social worker did in hospital when he had been there 5 days. It is clear he needs to be in residential care. He has been in the home a few days and we were told he would be there up to 4 weeks.

My mum has now been discharged but is injured. She was phoned today to be told she must start paying the full amount of his pension from the dates of admission to the home last week.

She was also invited to a meeting this week to discuss his needs with various HCPs. I believe this is to discuss his long term care placement.

[ashtrayheart]

50% of any private pensions or occupational pensions/retirement annuities should be disregarded as long the spouse remains at home and isn’t also in a care home. I’m a finance assessment officer.

[Artbum]

That’s very helpful, thanks. The social worker is clearly talking out of her arse.

[ashtrayheart]

We have multiple issues with social workers giving out the wrong information at my council. Causes us no end of problems! A form detailing his financial circumstances will need completing and a full assessment should then be conducted. If you want more info check out the care and support statutory guidance under the care act (should find through google).

[hatgirl]

And you are in England???

I'm hoping someone has made a mistake somewhere, because there is all kinds of wrong going on in that.

1. He should not have been discharged from hospital to a nursing placement he has to pay for without first being screened for NHS fully funded continuing healthcare. Ask to see the paperwork indicating he did not trigger for a full CHC assessment. If it actually exists ask why you weren't consulted/ provided consent.
   

1. Who decided he was going to the nursing home placement? Does anyone have Lasting Power of Attorney for him for health and welfare and finances? If it was the social worker who made the decision what mental capacity assessments did they make and what best interests considerations did they hold?
   

1. She shouldn't be paying a penny until there has been a financial assessment. Unless he has previously been financially assessed for some other reason it's unlikely this has already happened in the few days he has been there.
   

1. I suspect the meeting with HCPs this week may be to try and rectify some of the above in retrospect but unless they are running some kind of discharge to assess scheme where the NHS pays for the care home placement until social care eligibility has been determined then they have potentially acted unlawfully.

[Artbum]

Thanks so much for your reply that’s really helpful!

[florentina1]

Please take advice from Age Uk they are excellent. When my Mother was admitted to the care home from hospital, the first six weeks were free. This was while she was assessed and the financials sorted. After 6 weeks I was given the option of moving her out of the home and finding one more suited.

She only had to use half of her pension as my stepfather was still living in the house and responsible for the bills. She was also given a spending allowance. I find that some LAs are not very keen to give you full facts.

If you are not already doing so, I would also advise that your mother claim Attendance allowance and single person Council Tax. If your mother also has a Dementia Diagnosis there. Is no Council tax due.
Attendance allowance is not means tested.

[Artbum]

Thank you. She was previously in contact with Age UK and found them unhelpful. I spoke to the social worker and she apologised for the phone call my mum received about finances - where the caller acted like a loan shark collection agent. I will look at attendance allowance. Thanks again.