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Broke up with my wife (access to my 3 kids)

(144 Posts)
Daddcares Tue 01-Sep-15 13:51:56

Ok so broke up from my wife Not going into too much detail except was few months ago i have a new partner and my wife point blank refuses for me to see the kids 5 year old twins boy /girl and 2 year old boy , unless she (wife) is with me

so im not allowed to take them to the park few min walk from their house or take them for a meal basically anything unless she's with us.

the reason given is she thinks i'm going to take them to meet my new partner (im not and have no intention to do so at the moment)

she wont answer the phone to allow me to speak tot the kids etc

yes im paying maintenance
no never been physical with either the kids or my wife
yes what i have done in ending the marriage is wrong but im genuinely upset every day about missing my kids and lack of contact

any experience /advise please help

JeffsanArsehole Tue 01-Sep-15 13:54:38

I don't see any point in persisting engaging with someone so difficult, you've tried everything so now go and see a solicitor and get proper contact sorted out in court/legally.

The longer you leave it the more difficult it will be. The children are entitled to a relationship with you.

sleepyelectricsheep Tue 01-Sep-15 14:01:28

If the new partner was the OW then you need to be more sensitive to her feelings.

If so it will all be so very raw right now.

If this is the case I would advise going along with her wishes for now, in a bid to regain her trust.

hattyhatter Tue 01-Sep-15 14:03:25

Mediation might help. If not, you need a legal solution. Good luck.

MissFitt68 Tue 01-Sep-15 14:03:32

I agree. But mediation will be required before it gets to court, so you could get the ball rolling there

Ask school/nursery to be included in parents eve/school letters/reports etc so you can keep up with that side of things

Good luck!

Daddcares Tue 01-Sep-15 14:04:43

thanks im starting to think its me and i'm wrong ,

i have spoke to the local court about a contact order but have to go through mediation i have started this process as yet she hasn't responded i've asked the meditation to update me today

sleepyelectricsheep Tue 01-Sep-15 14:06:26

Daddcares was your new partner the other woman?

If so you do need to be a bit more understanding to your ex IMO, she must be going through hell.

Daddcares Tue 01-Sep-15 14:10:41

yes she was the ow and i do understand . however she tells me i need to see the kids etc and spend time with them aside from our relationship , yet wont allow me to do that without her there as im sure you can imagine awkward is not the word

peggyundercrackers Tue 01-Sep-15 14:11:47

I would agree with jeff - get proper legal advice - your ex cannot dictate what you can/cannot do with your own kids. Keep a diary of when you have been denied contact so you cannot be accused of leaving them without trying to make contact.

sleepyelectricsheep Tue 01-Sep-15 14:19:34

You need to regain her trust.

You need to understand that you have massively broken it by the betrayal of having an affair, so if you say you will not be including your partner in your visits, she's not unreasonable to disbelieve you.

Cut her some slack. This is not the future she planned for herself or your DCs, it is one they've had forced on them while having their world torn apart, because of your selfishness.

If you feel awkward, well frankly, that's a small price to pay for such an enormous betrayal of trust. Deal with it.

If you want her to trust you ever again, don't fight her. Show her you can be considerate of her feelings.

I'm not saying any off the above to judge you - it's just how things are. If you betray someone's trust, they won't trust you, it's quite simple.

The ball is in your court to regain her trust and show her you can cooperate and learn to co-parent as exes.

I wish you all luck in finding a way forward.

VoyageOfDad Tue 01-Sep-15 14:19:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fastdaytears Tue 01-Sep-15 14:27:23

^
You need to understand that you have massively broken it by the betrayal of having an affair, so if you say you will not be including your partner in your visits, she's not unreasonable to disbelieve you.^

Not unreasonable not to believe him but totally unreasonable to decide that means that he can't see his children on their own.

I'd be going straight to the solicitor but if you do want to suggest a compromise now then could there be a friend or relative who there isn't such awkwardness with who could be there for a few visits?

It's not really about the OP feeing awkward- it's about not being able to properly spend time with his children in those circumstances.

Oh and before anyone else says it, it's not "access". OP you come across well otherwise and I have no doubt you thinking of your children but they're not library books or squash courts you can book out! It's "contact" and it's their right to see you not the other way around. One of those times when the terminology does matter.

sleepyelectricsheep Tue 01-Sep-15 14:29:50

" if you do want to suggest a compromise now then could there be a friend or relative who there isn't such awkwardness with who could be there for a few visits?"

That's a really good idea IMO.

Not as a permanent thing, but while it's all still so raw.

fastdaytears Tue 01-Sep-15 14:32:03

Ah well I'm a genius.

Obviously not everyone has a willing volunteer but it might be a good stepping stone between no one and sad/angry wife who can't really be expected to have a nice relaxed lunch with the OP right now.

Wife might also benefit from some time to herself but probably doesn't see that right now.

lunar1 Tue 01-Sep-15 14:39:23

Hopefully you can sort something out in mediation. Have you assured her that the OW will be nowhere near your children for the foreseeable future?

Dollius01 Tue 01-Sep-15 14:40:06

She is obviously completely wrong to stop access because she is hurting the children but she clearly doesn't believe that you won't introduce them to the OW. Are you absolutely sure you don't intend to do this? If I recollect correctly, it is not advised to introduce new partners until a good 9 to 12 months into the relationship.

Is there any other way you can assure her this will not happen?

I would go to see a lawyer asap for advice if I were you but try to refrain from coming over intimidating (don't start sending lawyers letters flying around). Mediation definitely the best next step. She is bound to come round when she realises she is just hurting her children.

Try to remember that whatever you are telling yourself, your wife (and everyone else probably) see that you have left both her and the kids, not just her. You have to embrace that - you chose to leave and now it is causing a world for pain for everyone, mostly your kids, who you have let down very badly. It is naturally going to be a tricky transition for all of you.

BoneyBackJefferson Tue 01-Sep-15 14:41:39

Agree with some of the previous posters, get legal advice now.
Sort out a formal contact agreement.

Daddcares Tue 01-Sep-15 14:43:50

so how do i regain the trust of her

all im trying to do is be there for my kids

i have no intention of them meeting OW anytime soon im happy to have the kids local to the house such as park local pub for meals etc local playcentre but NO

coffeeisnectar Tue 01-Sep-15 14:45:01

The ex cannot dictate who the children see whilst in the care of their father.

The ex cannot control the children to the extent that she is micro-managing their time with their dad.

The relationship the dad has with his children is completely separate to the relationship he had with his ex and while I appreciate she is hurting, passing that hurt onto the children by refusing to let them see dad or insisting on being there (which is confusing for the kids and no doubt a very frosty awkward atmosphere) is cruel and unnecessary.

NewLife4Me Tue 01-Sep-15 14:50:31

Your ex can't dictate when you see your children, you need to either bide your time, be a good dad and show her you still care about her as the mum of your children.

If my dh had had an affair I'm sure I'd be the same, it's a bit despicable isn't it. I don't agree with waiting to gain her trust that has been killed forever, but even though she is hurting they are your children and they have a right to be a part of your life.

You need to seek legal advice and push for mediation.

StanSmithsChin Tue 01-Sep-15 14:51:45

You must have known this wasn't going to be easy?

You have hurt your wife immensely, changed her and the children's whole future and replaced her in a heartbeat and now you want to take her through the courts......have you not done enough to break this women already?

She doesn't trust that you won't introduce OW because let's face it you are not trustworthy are you?
Can you not just suck it up for a little while longer? She isn't stopping access but she wants it on her terms for now and you must be able to see why? The children are very young and you quickly replaced her as wife she will be worried you may try and replace her as mum too. Right now the children are all she has got.

However if you cannot continue with the supervised visits then mediation is the way forward. Please don't use the courts as a threat to get what you want if you are serious then go through with it.
Maybe pop over to divorce board and have a read of how your sort of behaviour affects women maybe it will help you understand the position you have put your wife in.

I wish your wife well for the future and I hope you are able to have a constant and good relationship with your children.

BoneyBackJefferson Tue 01-Sep-15 14:55:08

Daddcares

Don't star jumping through hoops to see your children. Go down the legal route.

scatterthenuns Tue 01-Sep-15 14:57:15

so how do i regain the trust of her

I don't think you ever will. Cheating is completely unforgivable and trust destroying for many.

lunar1 Tue 01-Sep-15 14:59:25

You can't regain her trust. It will take years for her to trust you if she ever does.

You need to sort mediation out because you will be then able to sure her with a third party that the OW will not be involved. I know she can't and shouldn't stop you seeing them, the poor woman now has to hand over the Moset precious things in her world to a lying cheating scumbag. Of course she won't trust you.

lunar1 Tue 01-Sep-15 15:00:20

Oh dear-too many typos to correct!

wafflyversatile Tue 01-Sep-15 15:00:48

She's being unreasonable. When she has the kids she decides who they meet and when you have the kids you decide.

You don't have to regain her trust as a father.

When a couple split up it is not the woman who gets custody of the children and decides how to ration out access to them.

She needs to realise that because she's hurting it does not give her the right to obstruct her DC's access to their father. She needs to act in their best interest not in accordance with her feelings toward you for leaving. He could be going for 50/50 access or even more. She doesn't get to dictate.

Another voice saying get legal advice. If there are no DA issues then the courts would not let her dictate these terms.

If you don't have it already get it on an email/text from her her reasons for the arrangement she is currently insisting on.

What access do you want/think would be best for your DC in order to have a good relationship with both their parents? 50/50 is quite usual these days. Get yourself out of the mindset that DC stay with the mum and the dad gets whatever crumbs she is willing to offer.

fastdaytears Tue 01-Sep-15 15:13:09

precious things in her world to a lying cheating scumbag goodness! That seems a bit strong. OP not the first person to have an affair or even in a particularly select group.

His children are presumably also the most precious thing in his life too, so why should he be expected to have his wife's anger impact on his relationship with them?

In other news, we appear to have frightened him off...

lunar1 Tue 01-Sep-15 15:19:40

I didn't say it should stop him seeing them, just that you can see why she's struggling right now.

Having an affair is about more than shagging someone else. It's about lying to your family, children included. It takes family time and money from the children as well as his wife.

Plus the change in personality that goes with all the lies an affair involves. I'm still not saying he shouldn't see them but what he has done hardly shows a man putting his children first. If he'd needed to end the marriage he could have done it with out having his latest shag as a safety net.

Collaborate Tue 01-Sep-15 15:22:43

My guess, OP, FWIW, is that she is insisting on being present so that she can be close to you. I reckon it may have nothing to do with the kids meeting the OW. She needs to move on.

I agree with the PPs who say you need to seek some legal advice and take it to court if mediation is a non-starter.

LumpySpacedPrincess Tue 01-Sep-15 15:26:19

It's up to you who you introduce your kids to and what you do with them whilst you are with them, you are their parent too.

I can understand why she is upset but she is not acting in the interests of your children, I would go down a legal route.

I could understand her position if you were abusive as she would be protecting her children from you.

scribblegirl Tue 01-Sep-15 15:30:10

I agree with many PPs that the formal route is best right now. Look at mediation; and if that doesn't work, the courts. Everything should be couched in the language of what is best for your children. Ie. It's not fair on them to be deprived of a relationship with their father, rather than it not being fair on you to be deprived of a relationship with your kids.

resists the urge to ask where they were in your thoughts when you were jumping into bed with OW and betraying the woman who gave birth to them

NewLife4Me Tue 01-Sep-15 15:30:41

OP, you are very lucky.
You have not only ruined your families life by screwing around whilst your wife had small children to look after but you get to play daddy, more than likely 50/50 residency then your ow can play at being step mummy.
How the hell do you think your wife feels.

The lucky bit is that she hasn't done what my friend did and move to the other side of the country so the dad couldn't see the kids.
His work doesn't allow too many trips, he sees them very occasionally.

I'm sorry to be blunt but you and ow have wrecked your family and you don't seem to think you have done anything wrong.
Well, if she is happy to break one family can't see as you'll be together for long.
I hope you are supporting your family properly and not just paying what the csa might say.

Daddcares Tue 01-Sep-15 15:32:54

Please don't use the courts as a threat to get what you want if you are serious then go through with it.

At what point have i said i've mentioned let alone threatened this ?????????

I appreciate the comments on here

however i'm well aware of the hurt i have caused.
At no point EVER have i threatened my wife in any way physical or re the kids please dont judge me on the little bit of info i gave in the original post

the last thing i want is to go to court to have accesss to my children but it looks like its the way it will go.

i have now heard back from mediation since my original post earlier on , my wife has had letters texts and calls from them to which she has ignored

IM gonna stress here iM GUTTED this has happened to me the kids but most of all my wife however it has and all i want for my kids is for them to have the relationship with there dad

scatterthenuns Tue 01-Sep-15 15:34:56

Collaborate, I think that is a load of crap.

Rather, I reckon that the obviously very hurt woman is livid with the pair of them, and is terrified of the OW winning over her children the same way she did with her DH.

I'd want to stop them building a relationship with her too. Not this early, whilst the wounds are still open.

lunar1 Tue 01-Sep-15 15:37:30

This didn't just happen to your family, it wasn't an accident you chose to cheat. You caused this hurt.

scribblegirl Tue 01-Sep-15 15:40:41

IM gonna stress here iM GUTTED this has happened to me the kids but most of all my wife

It didn't "happen" to anyone. You did it to them.

Your children deserve a relationship with their father but that kind of blame ducking makes you sound like a crap one.

BathtimeFunkster Tue 01-Sep-15 15:41:20

I can understand why she is upset but she is not acting in the interests of your children

So that makes two of them.

But one of them is acting out of being traumatised by an enormous betrayal.

The other is motivated by getting his leg over with his new bit.

I would go down a legal route.

Yes, further antagonising a woman whose life you have wrecked and dragging your kids through a court custody battle is exactly what your children need now as they deal with their father walking out of their family for his new girlfriend.

BathtimeFunkster Tue 01-Sep-15 15:44:36

iM GUTTED this has happened to me the kids but most of all my wife however it has

hmm

Nope. Nothing "happened". You did this to them. On purpose.

Your children deserve a relationship with a better man than you.

fastdaytears Tue 01-Sep-15 15:46:12

what your children need now as they deal with their father walking out of their family for his new girlfriend. this is a bit unfair when he is trying to maintain a good relationship with his children and being stopped.

Have to say though I really hope "happened to me" was a typo! Though not sure what OP could have been trying to say.

BlahBlahUsername Tue 01-Sep-15 15:46:19

What happens if mediation is ignored? Does it then go straight to court?

In your shoes OP, I would try one last time to contact her in the most effective way possible - whether letter, or a mutual friend, and state that you're sorry for the hurt you caused but your children need you in their lives too, and that you have no intention of introducing them to the other woman until it feels appropriate. Perhaps if you feel inclined even say that you'll discuss it with her before that happens. (Other posters are right in saying she can't dictate who they see when they're with you, but you seem to understand that it wouldn't be a great move for your children.)

Set a date, like seven days from posting of letter, whatever, and let her know she can communicate with you in whichever way she feels comfortable, but that if you have no response from her by a certain date you will be moving ahead and applying for a court hearing. It's important your children have normal contact resumed asap, or as normal as possible. Stress that it's not about her or you, it's about them.

But as a stop-gap, couldn't you see them with her, if she's still amenable to it? It's better than nothing.

Daddcares Tue 01-Sep-15 15:48:25

so after me being attacked on here for what i have never ducked blame for

should i now disclose shes been having a relationship with my now x friend since the week after we split up

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

StanSmithsChin Tue 01-Sep-15 15:49:37

If court is your only option then I pray your wife gets a SHL to ensure hers and her children's futures are secure.

Be very clear on what path you choose OP as no child was ever grateful to a father that hurt their mother. I am just sorry you didn't think about them this much during your affair.
I truly beleive children deserve a good relationship with both parents and I hope your new GF can cope as SM to ones so young. If you bother to checkout the divorce board pop along to Step parents too and see how many couples struggle with blended families.

For your children's sake I hope you are a better father than you were a husband. Hope you sort something out OP with the least amount of distress to all parties.

BathtimeFunkster Tue 01-Sep-15 15:50:04

A week after you walked out on her and your children, she was free to shag whoever she wanted.

LumpySpacedPrincess Tue 01-Sep-15 15:51:48

If the relationship was abusive then I can understand why your wife would want to be present, to protect her children.

As the relationship wasn't then the children have the right to continue the relationship with their father and to meet whoever he wants them to meet. Relationships fail and it sucks but the children must be put first, everyone has to put aside their personal feelings for the children's sake.

I do feel for your wife but unless she feels she is protecting her children then she doesn't have the right to deny them a relationship with their father.

Hopefully she will meet a nice loyal partner in the future, if that's what she wants.

MistressMerryWeather Tue 01-Sep-15 15:51:59

As far as I'm concerned the affair you had and access to your children are 2 separate things.

This isn't about you or your ex, it's about the children and they must be finding this all very distressing.

Get yourself a solicitor and have a look at the Families Need Fathers website ink{http://www.fnf.org.uk/\www.fnf.org.uk]]/}

MistressMerryWeather Tue 01-Sep-15 15:53:08

Link fail

www.fnf.org.uk/

Daddcares Tue 01-Sep-15 15:56:16

as i expected all most people have read is there is a ow and not the problem in hand which is my children need their farther

thanks to those that have commented in a sensible way

im aware i have done wrong and hurt people as al;ways thers alot more to the situation than can be put on here but ill leave it at that

MistressMerryWeather Tue 01-Sep-15 15:58:48

You have also had some good advice here Dadd.

StanSmithsChin Tue 01-Sep-15 16:00:06

Actually I think every poster has addressed the contact issue and all have offered advice, from biding your time to seeking legal support. The fact you had an affair is important as that is the reason you poor wife feels the way she does.
Mediation and courts don't care about your lack of morals and will only focus on the welfare of the children so they won't judge you, which should please you OP.

BathtimeFunkster Tue 01-Sep-15 16:06:35

Relationships fail and it sucks but the children must be put first, everyone has to put aside their personal feelings for the children.

Exactly.

But one parent has clearly failed to do this over an extended period, so it's understandable the other parent feels they are not trustworthy where the children are concerned.

LumpySpacedPrincess Tue 01-Sep-15 16:07:21

Dad are you reading the same thread? confused

slugseatlettuce Tue 01-Sep-15 16:07:38

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

maybebabybee Tue 01-Sep-15 16:11:43

Children don't always need their father. I needed mine like I needed a hole in the head. He left my mother for her best friend when I was twelve. Goodbye and good riddance!

SolidGoldBrass Tue 01-Sep-15 16:12:02

What, actually, is so terrible about seeing your kids in your XW's presence for the time being? She's not forbidding you to see them. She's saying she wants to be there when you do. Unless she has distressed the children by shouting at you or crying throughout these contact sessions, it's not that unreasonable (and not uncommon when children are really small/breastfed/have additional needs) for the other parent to be nearby, at least.
It can be tapered off over time but right now it wouldn't kill you to cut your wife some slack.

wafflyversatile Tue 01-Sep-15 16:13:03

But one parent has clearly failed to do this over an extended period, so it's understandable the other parent feels they are not trustworthy where the children are concerned.

Nonsense. Women have exit affairs too and when they do no one says well she's shown herself as untrustworthy with the children so she'll just have to put up with only seeing the kids with the dad supervising as he understandably needs proof that she can be trusted after she hurt him so badly.

coffeeisnectar Tue 01-Sep-15 16:13:13

Oh fgs. Lots of relationships break down, many women throw out the husband or take the kids and leave and then the dad has to fight to see their kids even if they've done no wrong. Plenty of women move on and then restrict contact because they've got a new bloke ....It's not fair on the kids in any of these scenarios.

So slating the op for his affair is pointless. He didn't cheat on his children. Yes the wife is hurting but the kids are too and not being able to see their dad must be confusing. Only seeing dad with mum gives the wrong impression and is controlling behaviour by the wife.

Op, get the paperwork for court and get a contact order put in place.

ExConstance Tue 01-Sep-15 16:13:32

If our new relationship is a stable one and you stay together there is no reason why you should not have access to your children with your new partner. You need to maintain contact for now, forge ahead with your application to the court and explore the possibility of seeing the children with someone other than your ex present for the time being.

LumpySpacedPrincess Tue 01-Sep-15 16:13:44

slug if you read the whole thread that's what most people have said.

As MistressMerryWeather succinctly put the affair you had and access to your children are 2 separate things.

StanSmithsChin Tue 01-Sep-15 16:14:18

I would imagin it is OW that probably isn't too keen on the OP spending time with his wife while visiting the children.

MistressMerryWeather Tue 01-Sep-15 16:16:38

Children deserve to have both parents in their lives.

My two boys would be devastated if there dad just disappeared one day. I would never want to be part of that.

wafflyversatile Tue 01-Sep-15 16:16:53

This is the sort of thread that tempts me to start a reversal thread a few weeks down the line.

MistressMerryWeather Tue 01-Sep-15 16:18:00

their

Oswin Tue 01-Sep-15 16:21:07

Have you found somewhere to live? I'm curious why you would talk about taking them out instead of having access in your own home?
Take your time with this, do let let ow anywhere near your children for a good while.

Are you prepared for her turning round and saying fine I get it your a good dad, I'm being silly there yours every weekend. Or even 50/50. Are you prepared for that to happen?

LunaSonny Tue 01-Sep-15 16:34:13

Who either of you are shagging should have no impact on your childrens contact with their father.

Btw - your wife was free to do as she wished with regards to having another relationship, as soon as you left her for another woman.

moonfacebaby Tue 01-Sep-15 16:35:53

Personally, I never stopped my exH from seeing our kids & he'd had an affair. One, I needed the break & two, I wasn't going to let my feelings about the wanker impact my children. They wanted & needed to see their dad.

If you have split up, then surely seeing the kids with your exW is going to be a bit confusing for them too? Surely they need to understand that you have split up & aren't together anymore?

I do have a lot of sympathy for her - it's horrendous to find out that your DH is having an affair & it's soul- destroying. Particularly with young children in the mix. And as for the Op mentioning that she's shagging his mate now - well, good on her! She's a free agent & she can do what she pleases - being indignant about that makes you look like a complete twat.

But you do deserve to see your kids & there needs to be some resolution there - you might have to suck up the seeing them with her there for a while, maybe she'll calm down a bit & then agree to a different set up. She can't hold you to ransom over this indefinatly either - it's not about her, or you, it's about the kids & minimising the affect on them.

Despondentlyyours Tue 01-Sep-15 16:36:18

As this is so new I would suggest that you suck it up with the supervised visits for now. Is it really such a big deal that your Wife is there when you see your children?

Ask for a time when you can call them on their home phone?

Then longer term get into mediation

VoyageOfDad Tue 01-Sep-15 16:47:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LumpySpacedPrincess Tue 01-Sep-15 16:53:33

Oh Voyage, Voyage Voyage...<shuckles voyage's hair playfully>

Ya luvs us reeeeelly...

VoyageOfDad Tue 01-Sep-15 16:59:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LibrariesGaveUsP0wer Tue 01-Sep-15 16:59:59

The problem with the formal route now is it can set the tone forever.

Yes, your children deserve a relationship with you. But if you can move towards civility instead of communication through lawyers, that will help.

Have you tried suggestions like taking them out with a friend or family member she trusts? What did she say?

Fairenuff Tue 01-Sep-15 17:04:09

OP could you clarify something as it's not clear from your posts, have you been seeing your children since you left the marital home, or not?

Oswin Tue 01-Sep-15 17:04:14

I dunno voyage, its hard to be objective when you see the devastation that fucking off with an ow can do.
I really have tried to be not mean to the op when my brain is shouting he's a prick.

He had an affair so that makes me think he's behaved like a scumbag. But scumbag types can still be parents. And the children, especially now, need to feel secure. Which means the adults coming to an arrangement. It might mean a gradual increase in contact with the father alone. Could be something else.

LumpySpacedPrincess Tue 01-Sep-15 17:08:31

Voyage, I think the op has been given good advice.

D'ya know it's okay that there are spaces with a female bias, it really is. The idea that as it's a female site it has to be completely fair and impartial at all times is sexist really, why should we, because we're women? There are lots of male spaces on the Internet so don't get too distressed that there's a little corner somewhere where women get Quite. Cross. Sometimes. smile

BoneyBackJefferson Tue 01-Sep-15 17:11:15

The problem with the formal route now is it can set the tone forever.

As can bending to the whim of the RP. The sooner this is formalised the better.

wafflyversatile Tue 01-Sep-15 17:12:20

The problem with the formal route now is it can set the tone forever.

Same can be said of the informal route.

LibrariesGaveUsP0wer Tue 01-Sep-15 17:14:57

Well except that it is much easier to go formal than come back from formal.

I am just saying that there might be an argument for considering an informal phased approach first. The lawyers will still be there in a month if it isn't working.

wafflyversatile Tue 01-Sep-15 17:19:49

Well except that it is much easier to go formal than come back from formal.

I don't see how that is the case.

MrsJorahMormont Tue 01-Sep-15 17:20:21

Are you some F4J type trying to portray MN / DN as full of men haters? Because you've had excellent and very considered responses but you have chosen to flounce over a few posters pointing out the unpalatable truth: your ex doesn't believe a word you say, you lied to her and betrayed her so why WOULD she believe you when you say the kids won't be meeting OW? She just hears another big fat lie.

I would try and have one last, measured conversation where you swear on your gran's grave that you will see the kids without your new partner present. In the same conversation make it clear that you'll be starting legal proceedings if she doesn't work with you informally.

LibrariesGaveUsP0wer Tue 01-Sep-15 17:22:35

As a lawyer (admittedly not family ) once things are going through your lawyers it is bloody difficult to go back to informal discussion. The closest is normally mediation. Which is why I always tell clients to be very clear that is a leap they are ready to make.

YonicScrewdriver Tue 01-Sep-15 17:34:00

As a first step - can you ask your ex to give you an idea of how long she might want to be present for visits? Can you set a time scale you can both live with - 2 months from now, or whatever?

Of course you have every right to call in the lawyers, but I'd have a few more shots at a gradual change of position first. The suggestion upthread re meeting them with gran or aunt present might be another gradual change.

When you were together, did you spend a lot of time with the three kids on their own - are any of her concerns practical?

wafflyversatile Tue 01-Sep-15 17:36:29

Fair enough Libraries

Mrs Jorah He is actually perfectly entitled to introduce them to his DP if he wants and shouldn't have to promise, really. Although I don't think it's unreasonable to not want them to meet too soon.

Most posters get a bit flouncy at posts that tell them how awful they are.

Radiatorvalves Tue 01-Sep-15 17:46:44

It's interesting to compare the attitudes of posters on his thread to ones on an old thread of mine asking for advice on behalf of my DB. His wife had an affair and walked out and introduced kids to her lover within weeks. I posted asking what he could do about it.

I was accused of being the OW (2 years down the line he has only just started seeing someone), and several people said it was ridiculous and controlling for him even to have concerns about the lover seeing so much of his kids.

OP....it is in the interests of your kids to maintain a relationship with you. If you can't achieve that amicably you need to see a solicitor.

Daddcares Tue 01-Sep-15 17:56:02

so to clarify

yes i've seen the kids (with my wife ) taken them all out for dinner /lunch on a number of occasions

only mention taking the kids out as there is no way in hell she would allow them in the same town as my new house let alone in the house.

i have tried to do everything since the affair right
i started to pay child support before the csa were involved , i just want ti see my kids without the agg

she has gone off at me in front of the kids on a number of occasions including swearing and talking about ow or new family as she puts it

i have said from day one say what you want to me just not in front of our children

yes i have had a affair and yes i am a scumbag in most peoples eyes however

you dont know the full story

all i wanted was to see if someone on here had experience of a similar situation

MissFitt68 Tue 01-Sep-15 18:01:53

Wrong worrydadd most of us can see you are doing your best

You'll get the contact you want eventually. Including overnights and half of holidays etc

Keep a diary of times you've already seen them and the circumstances. Write in it when she's verbally abusive

You can request third party handover to avoid seeing her and do the DC at the exposed to her swearing/shouting at you

Just remain calm. If you can't afford a solicited there's mckenzies friends

Fairenuff Tue 01-Sep-15 18:05:08

Okay so you are getting to see the children which is the main thing. I would keep seeing them as you are, in the presence of your wife for now and just keep trying for mediation.

It may well be that she is not ready for that yet, which is why she hasn't responded. You will need to give her some time and be patient. The children are seeing you so this isn't affecting them. This situation won't go on like this forever and as long as you can be civil together, the children are fine, which is all that matters right now isn't it.

Paying child support before the csa are involved is not some heroic or even noteworthy action. It's something that you should be doing anyway so I'm glad to hear that you are.

MistressMerryWeather Tue 01-Sep-15 18:11:28

How are you paying maintenance? Cash in hand or bank transfers?

Best to do it through the bank so you have evidence.

I personally think given the circumstances things should be as formal as possible.

There is too much emotions flying around because of the affair, new relationships etc... There needs to be someone objective to put things in place so the children get the best possible outcome.

If this was an amicable split there would be a chance at an informal arrangement but as things stand now it's just not going to happen IMO.

VoyageOfDad Tue 01-Sep-15 18:20:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LibrariesGaveUsP0wer Tue 01-Sep-15 18:23:51

I would agree with that. Behind the scenes legal advice is often very valuable in a situation like this.

MissFitt68 Tue 01-Sep-15 18:33:35

How is she managing a new relationship without having the children meet him?

If she doesn't respond to the mediators then she will be deemed as being obstructive. The courts won't see it as 'she needs more time'

fairenuff it's not ok to keep 'seeing them as you are'.... She's being verbally abusive to him in front of dc

YonicScrewdriver Tue 01-Sep-15 18:39:55

"How is she managing a new relationship without having the children meet him?"

What a question! Friends may be babysitting, relatives may have the kids, this may be someone she knows from work etc.

fabuLou Tue 01-Sep-15 18:46:29

What do you expect right now? you shagged someone else while married then left your family for her. give it time

Inertia Tue 01-Sep-15 18:49:54

You didn't worry about how much the children needed their father when you were off with OW. It'd be interesting to discover how much of your time your children missed out on when you decided that spending time with OW was more important than them. However, this is apparently something that happened to you- the mischievous god of extra-marital relationships caused you to have an affair, and now you're bothered about your children.

Your posts contain a lot of comments about how gutted you are, and how you want access without your wife around, but I can't see much about how this has impacted upon the children. Could they be scared that you're going to abandon them again if you take them somewhere? Have they lost trust in you? Have they asked that mum accompanies them , as they know they can rely on her to be there for them? Don't underestimate the impact that your actions could have had on the children.

Your children have the right to contact with you. It's probably advisable to arrange contact via email, so that there are written records of what's been agreed. The suggestion of asking a relative to help mediate/ accompany you is a good one, if you have a relative that you trust.

The key point is that it's not about you and want you want, it's about what's best for the children. - which is for them to maintain a relationship with you in a manner in which they feel at ease. You might have to put with feeling awkward for a little while, until you and your ex-wife can work together to come up with a solution.

Ihateigglepiggle Tue 01-Sep-15 18:57:57

'she has gone off at me in front of the kids on a number of occasions including swearing and talking about ow or new family as she puts it'

Only a saint or a fool would be able to keep their mouths shut. If my husband did what you have done, I think 'going off' on him would be a mild description of my reaction. No, I couldn't keep my dignity in front of the kids.

It would be unnatural of her to pretend she's ok with your actions. Do you want your kids growing up thinking 'oh, well, if you get cheated on and your heart broken, you just smile and let people treat you like dirt'

Anyway, that aside, you should be able to see your kids. Can you put it in writing that you will not introduce them to the OW for at least 6 months? Then, if you break your word you can both go to the courts knowing exactly where you both stand.

fabuLou Tue 01-Sep-15 18:59:30

why don't you see the dcs with wife for now? If your lover doesn't like it tough titties

sleeponeday Tue 01-Sep-15 19:02:55

The affair and you seeing the children are two separate issues, but the problem is devastated people are vulnerable and may well lash out, and that's imperfect, but very human.

Have you considered writing a letter to your wife stating that you understand her concerns and agree that it would be most destabilising to the children for them to meet someone else for at least a full calendar year, and that they need to adjust to the situation as it is without further disruption - and adding that you fully understand that this is an admission that doing so would be to place your own needs ahead of the children in an unacceptable way?

You could then put a second paragraph in stating that you feel that continuity and stability are essential to the children's well-being, and that seeing you in a consistent and dependable way will be key to their coping. You therefore suggest that you have them for tea every [Wed or other suitable evening] and every other weekend, weekend of choice to be determined by her. As the 2 year old is still so young you appreciate that it should be just Saturday night at this stage, unless she would prefer the break, in which case you are happy to have them on Friday and Saturday night.

Then reiterate that you want things as calm for them as possible, and you are fully guaranteeing that there will be no contact of any kind with any partner for a full year. You simply want to secure their relationship with you, because you love them, and because you know that it is essential for their future emotional health that you do.

Best case scenario is that she is reassured by this and starts to relax. Worst case scenario is she doesn't, but you have clearly demonstrated good faith and an ability to put the children first should things ever reach a court stage - which obviously is a horrible thing to happen for all concerned.

I'm not touching the affair part. I will just say that walking out on someone who does not meet your needs when there are 5 year old twins and a 2 year old is shitty conduct, and she probably hasn't the spare energy or time to meet anyone's but the kids' right now. I wouldn't either.

But that is separate from the need and right of the children to have a great relationship with their dad, and they need to know that you love them and that you are a part of their lives, and not going anywhere. And she needs, sadly, to find a way to deal with that, whatever her emotions right now. It's going to be agonisingly hard for her, and she will need your patience and reassurance that you aren't going to compound things for her and the kids by bringing the OW into it, but she does need to find the strength from somewhere to do that.

Bring up mediation with her again in the letter, saying you see it as a way to ensure she has her worries heard and addressed in the best interests of the kids, with a neutral third party there to protect her and their interests, and that you hope she's willing to attend on that basis.

Her inevitable answer will be that you weren't thinking of the kids when you decided to have an affair, and she has a strong point. You weren't. But it is what it is and all you can do now is try to exercise damage control.

I wouldn't touch her behaviour in front of the kids, unacceptable as it is. She's not doing it for fun, and the hope is that in time she will stop as she feels less raw. If things have to reach court, then that is when you need to voice it. Meanwhile I would keep a diary and email it to yourself daily with the diary as an attachment, so you can prove you are writing it contemporaneously and not, later, to give yourself evidence that she's unreasonable.

sleeponeday Tue 01-Sep-15 19:09:00

Why are the CSA involved, if you were already paying? They charge the mother for their admin these days, so she will get less than she did before - I am assuming you were paying at least the (low, and a minimum) levels they mandate? confused

StormyBlue Tue 01-Sep-15 19:43:29

It seems like there is a sensible middle ground here - seek legal advice, but then take a few weeks (or maybe even a couple of months) working with what she is comfortable with for now to see if an informal co parenting relationship can be salvaged at the end of it before actually going down the mediation with intent of going to court route.

Yes she is being unreasonable for denying you unsupervised access, but it's completely understandable why she wouldn't be thinking straight right now, so in the long term I think it would be by far the most sensible thing to give her a little time to to get the head space she needs to think rationally about it before charging in after court action. How you act now will affect the entire of what is left of your children's childhoods.

If it transpires that she just wants to block you out of their lives or will never give you unsupervised contact, then by all means get something official in place.

It's really hard growing up with parents who are at each others throats and can't just have a friendly conversation with one another, and I would be most concerned that immediately going in after court action would be the final nail in the coffin in that respect.

sleeponeday Tue 01-Sep-15 19:48:49

Absolutely agree.

Court action is sometimes unavoidable, but by definition it is adversarial and toxic and couples rarely recover from it. I hope to hell mediation works, once the dust settles.

WorzelsCornyBrows Tue 01-Sep-15 20:22:09

Your children certainly have a right to a relationship with you if you're not a danger to them, but put yourself in your wife's shoes. You've betrayed her in the worst possible way and you now expect her to believe you when you say you won't introduce them to the OW, of course she doesn't believe you!

You need to be patient, you have after all brought this on yourself. Try to understand why your promises mean shit all to your wife and for the love of god do not tell your wife that OW thinks you should see your DC on your own. Your wife won't want to hear the OW opinions on what is best for your DC, because frankly where was her concern for them when she was having an affair with her partner?

Can you ask that a neutral relative joins you for contact until your wife has come to terms with what has happened, and then if she doesn't come round then try mediation?

I understand your need to be with your DC, really I do, but I also understand why your wife is being difficult, I think many parents (mums and dads) would struggle under those circumstances.

GoblinLittleOwl Tue 01-Sep-15 20:22:11

Does anyone ever think about the children?
Not as pawns in a game or possessions but as people who have been damaged for life, by a parent's selfishness.
Mother is the one who has to make all the concessions, but

' im genuinely upset every day about missing my kids and lack of contact. '

If you were genuinely upset you would get back there and try and rebuild your marriage.

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