"West Cork" on audible about Sophie Toscan du Plantier

[WiseOwlOne]

I'm listening to this free series on audible now. It's fascinating. He was convicted in France in absentia because Ireland cannot extradite a British citizen to France I think.

How did he know where to go, the day his friend (another journalist) tipped him off about the story, the other journalist thought it was a foreign woman. It wasnt confirmed she was French until 14.00 and by 14.20 IB was at her house in his professional capacity as a journalist and his partner was there with her camera. So he went there on a hunch? How did he know for certain where to go? He thought nobody would doubt a (fake) posh British journalist.

It is a fascinating case.

[Iblinkedandiamold]

I must look that up, sounds fascinating. I always wondered if Ian Bailey was framed or did he really do it. I'm not all that familiar with the the details of the case.

[WiseOwlOne]

I have binge listened this series today. I did go for a walk and tidy up and eat and do yoga and go to the loo but I just kept pressing next!

The couple that did the podcasts, I think they spent too much time with Ian Bailey and they were very careful about what they were prepared to say at the end. I think that he won them over. His partner stays with him despite all the beatings he's doled out and the two journalists who deep dived in to this topic for this podcast eventually hold back on any insights! because........... he gave them coffee, cake and charm.

He is the obvious suspect and the gardai did have evidence, but they knew they didn't have enough evidence. Such as the scratch on his forehead the da after. He was introduced to her and lied about it. He did seem to ''know'' she was the foreign woman who'd been killed before he could have had time to hear that on the news and then drive there. Not only had he attacked his partner (at least) 3 times but the way he was able to distance himself from it as he minimised it was eye-opening. He can really create a narrative. He is Richard Burton and his partner is Elizabeth Burton, fighting and making love. That's how he sees it! His partner ended up in hospital with bruises and cuts all over her face and a broken hand. Her friends bought him a one way ticket to London but he did not go.

audible 13 episodes

[ZestyDragon]

I was in West Cork that Christmas. It was such a shock to people. There had been so little experience of murder in the area that people were frightened. I remember my grandmother refusing to let me stay at home alone because there had been a murder (20 miles away).

I have met Ian Bailey and I know people who know his partner's children. There is a general view that the gardai massively fucked up in their case against him. He is local "character" and really seems to enjoy the attention he gets in the area. Part of me believes he is as guilty as hell but the other part wonders if he had the finger pointed at him simply because he was an outsider and it suits people that it wasn't a local that did it.

[WiseOwlOne]

Oh my goodness @ZestyDragon, the gardai didn't handle the case well thst is for sure :-/

Without knowing Schull (it sounds idyllic!) It sounds like there were a lot of English people there, living simple lives in a beautiful location, or trying to, sounded in the interviews like there was a community of english artists, writers, potters who were outsiders yes, but without pretensions of grandeur. Jules Thomas network of friends who wanted IB to fly one way to London were all also English I think.

Other outsiders didn't see themselves in such a grandiose way. Not all grandiose narcissists are murderers though. If only it hadnt been John Harbison's birthday the day her body was discovered. They might have got some DNA
Still seems incredible that there was no DNA (found).

I hope they can somehow solve it for certain.

I do see why he hasnt been tried in Ireland though. There isnt enough evidence to convict him beyond reasonable doubt.

[WiseOwlOne]

Is there a sense now that he has lived with 24 years of suspicion? That is a sentence of sorts (although a lighter one undoubtedly).
Is the tide turning in west cork?
The French conviction of 25 years seems to have swung some sympathy back his way.
Especially as they used withdrawn statements I believe.

[WiseOwlOne]

Ps feel for his partner's children. They did nothing to desrve the notoriety which must be uncomfortable in small town ireland.

[EarringsandLipstick]

I have spent a lot of time in Schull & met Ian Bailey. He thrives on attention, which is partly what's added to his difficulties. He cannot help himself, talking to any journalist that will listen, and involving himself in any aspect of the case.

He has a stall at the farmer's market there & still gets curious looks as people realise who he is. He loves it, is totally aware of it & indeed actively encourages it.

I'm not going to comment on my views of his guilt or otherwise.

Serious errors were made in the handling of the case, which means sadly, there will almost certainly be no justice for her & her family.

The podcast was amazing.

[EarringsandLipstick]

@WiseOwlOne

Ps feel for his partner's children. They did nothing to desrve the notoriety which must be uncomfortable in small town ireland.

They are adults. I've never seen them. Even 20 years ago I wasn't aware of them being around, though maybe they were.

I don't think at least locally, they were impacted by any views of Bailey / their mother.

[Furrybootsyecomfy]

I listened to this a few years back- don’t remember the specifics, I might relisten as I remember really enjoying it.
Do you listen to MFM, OP? They were chatting about it on there this week.

[SionnachGlic]

I listened to this...they had a 'witness' who pointed to him as being at various places...who then revealed she lied...also that a Garda blackmailed her into a sex. I think most of public at the time believed this witness hence the suspicion. Perhaps there were other reasons locally. But as soon as she recanted, the case was a shambles....it is unfathomable that she lied to the extent she did & her conscience must be (should be uneasy)...but if she is lying about seeing him near the shop, on the road late at night etc...then the case against him was weak without it. Gardai totally messed up but who knows if he is innocent or not? He sounds obsessed with media & looking for recognition.....which I find narcissistic, a wholly unattractive trait. Also his treatment of his partner (in the past at least) has been shocking... unforgiveable in my eyes, violence & injury dressed up as passion. It looks like he is trapped in Eire forevermore unless he wants to end up in a french prison. I wish they had DNA...I wish the newest technology could do something to help Sophie's family. I'm so thankful her son doesn't hate Ireland & West Cork... ypu wouldn't blame him if he did...his poor Mother & then the fiasco of an investigation that followed. May she rip.

[WiseOwlOne]

The gardai allegedly said to the witness that if she signed the statement saying he was taller than she first said, they wouldn't need to tell her husband. so, bit by bit they shaped her statement. I can understand why she went along with it when her husband did not know she had cheated on him.

In the podcast, they played recordings of interviews with her before and after she recanted her statement - and she did sound genuinely very scared of IB in the first recording and not at all scared of him in the second interview, so, I couldn't be 100% certain listening to both interviews (before and after recanting her statement) that it isn't IB she's scared of. IB's solicitor is a bigwig of sorts, and he has sent her letters threatening to sue her, I do think she is at the very least a bit scared of IB and his legal team.

Her statement completely worthless now.

[SionnachGlic]

I must say...I'd be scared of anyone if I was trying to stitch them up. I rem at the time they made a big deal about two glasses or dishes on the table or something & the fact that it was Xmas time & her husband wasn't with her.... of course everything had to be considered & the victim's life under scrutiny to look at close connections etc.... but the poor girl, it was like she was on trial herself. Such a ongoing hardship for her family that there has been no justice. Although I think they do believe IB did it...
I can't say I know any better after the podcast as to his guilt or innocence.I do know more about his life generally & he def is a strange character..but does that make a killer? I think the domestic violence betw him & partner was what put him squarely in the frame. And then the witness lying convinced people. He is clearly obsessed with the case...I suppose I would be too if I was wrongly accused.

[WiseOwlOne]

Sophie told her French friend a man called Eoghan Bailey had tried to impress her with his poetry and yet he has denied ever meeting her. That would be ''heresay'' in an Irish court (really?) but obviously her family believe it. I can see why they believe it's him.

Can't stop thinking about it all. Need to get it out of my head today.

[SionnachGlic]

I don't rem that about hom trying to impress her...I do rem he said hd never met her but it turned out he was at het neighbour's property & she was pointed out to him or they said hello to the woman next door who was Sophie.

We won't solve it on here for sure...I think it will take a confession from the killer to solve it at this stage....but the podcast is def fascinating.

[SionnachGlic]

Sorry re typos...not paying attention!

[SecretCiderCellar]

What @EarringsandLipstick said. Jules Thomas’s daughters are well into adulthood. But one imagines it’s not been exactly straightforward, as the children of a mother with a violent partner she stays with, even before he became a murder suspect. One daughter’s husband said in court that her mother had pressured her to change a statement, another daughter said IB had made a pass at her before the murder. One of them babysat for Marie Farrell who retracted her identification of IB as the man seen near the location of the murder.

[WiseOwlOne]

Yes, i imagine they didn't have it easy. It was sad to hear that JT's daughters' fathers were abusive to her as well. 😪

[gabsdot]

I enjoyed this podcast. It was very interesting. It's a shame that there has never been any real resolution to the case.
IMO Ian Bailey didn't do it, but he could have, he is definitely a violent man and he has very much enjoyed the notoriety and fame that the case has brought him.

[elizabethdraper]

I am pretty sure her husband had her killed. As he is dead we will never know

[SecretCiderCellar]

@elizabethdraper

I am pretty sure her husband had her killed. As he is dead we will never know

But what would his motive have been?

[SelkieBoru]

Yeh, that's not something I'd rule out so quickly. Her husband had been there. It was hard to find, but he could have described it to somebody else very easily.

[ZestyDragon]

I know this is an older thread but having now watched Sophie A Murder in West Cork I'm wondering has anyone else watched it and what your views are?

I was never too convinced that he did it but now I actually suspect that he did. It was also so strange watching it and knowing a few of the people speaking.

[heymammy]

I watched this just the other day on Netflix or Prime, it's so difficult as there is not a scrap of physical evidence against Ian Bailey but the timeline where he/his missus were telling everyone he was investigating a murder is totally suss.

And his misdirection, encouraging reporters to look at "family in france" it just doesn't sit right but does that warrant a conviction?

Very sad case 😞

[ZestyDragon]

It's also the fact that he "jokingly" told people that he did it along with the bonfire outside the house that makes it all suspicious. Also we know he is capable of violence towards women (although sadly he isn't the only man like that).

[Sailorsgirl44]

I don't think he did it... Bailey was an unpleasant man but there is no proof.

The DPP clearly explained why they did not proceed with the case against him (~2000) and yet people continue to repeat things that aren't true. For example, he didn't know about the murder before anyone else.

A lot of the 'evidence' against him is based on hearsay and gossip. And the recollections of people. For example, the woman who said he videod the Xmas day swim said that he had his hands 'deep in his pockets' because of scratches. And yet in the actual video at least one of his hands is out of his pockets and doesn't appear particularly scratched