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So we have loads of referenda coming up

(28 Posts)
SnipSnipMrBurgess Tue 26-Sep-17 21:19:51

I think it might be an ugly few months ahead of us in relation to some of them. But I was particularly interested in the one on the womens right to stay home? I didnt know it was a right! Or are they trying to make it one?

WhatchaMaCalllit Wed 27-Sep-17 08:54:51

Hi SnipSnip - currently in our constitution, it is currently written in Article 41.2 that no economic reason should make the woman leave the home - she is essentially the homemaker.

2° the state, therefore, guarantees to protect the family in its constitution and authority, as the necessary basis of social order and as indispensable to the welfare of the nation and the state.
2 1° in particular, the state recognises that by her life within the home, woman gives to the state a support without which the common good cannot be achieved.
2° the state shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure6that mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home.

So they want to remove that and I'm not sure if they want to delete it entirely or replace it with something else.

WhatchaMaCalllit Wed 27-Sep-17 08:59:31

I think the timing of the referendum on the 8th Amendment is quite interesting - a week before the Pope is supposed to visit...

I can see the placards now "Keep your rosaries off our ovaries" (a blast from the past if you're old enough to remember the last referendum on this emotive issue).

We'll also be asked to vote on whether we should have directly elected mayors, blasphemy (can't believe this is actually in the constitution in the first place), extending voting rights to Irish citizens living abroad (can't believe we still don't have this), cutting the time it takes to have a divorce in Ireland, reducing the voting age to 16 (not sure that will get passed but it's an interesting one).

Maryz Wed 27-Sep-17 09:05:04

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Maryz Wed 27-Sep-17 09:09:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

justforthisthread101 Wed 27-Sep-17 11:02:05

So ultimately our fate as a nation could be decided by people who don't live here and have no intention of ever living here.

@Maryz I'm with you - and think those in Ireland should be shouting VERY loudly about this. Next year I'll have lived half my life outside of Ireland, am on the road to having dual citizenship and while it stuck in my craw that I wasn't able to go #hometovote in May 2015, I shouldn't be able to.

I do still pay tax as I have some income in Ireland but that's it. Where would I register? At my parent's address? I've never lived there. At the last address I had? I left it well over a decade ago and don't think the current occupants would want to deal with that.

Even if the right gets extended to citizens abroad (which remember, could include anyone in New York with an Irish granny....cos there are none of them....we'd still need a constituency to vote in!)

It's a cracked idea. With the size of the diaspora...totally cracked.

That said, can you all vote repeal the 8th? Please and thank you

Maryz Wed 27-Sep-17 11:14:14

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

justforthisthread101 Wed 27-Sep-17 11:19:42

Sadly you're right...but still, not having women chained forever to the kitchen sink under Article 41 and getting rid of the 8th is a start, no?? (eternal optimist!)

LivLemler Wed 27-Sep-17 13:21:41

Completely agree about votes for citizens abroad. I've moved to NI, and I was sad not to be able to vote for equal marriage, and I'll be equally sad not to be able to vote to repeal the 8th. But I really shouldn't be eligible to vote in Ireland, I don't live there or pay taxes.

I'm cautiously optimistic about the 8th, provided the question asked is a sensible one. It is going to be an ugly few months though.

SocMcDuffin Wed 27-Sep-17 14:48:30

I'll be voting yes to repealing the 8th, yes to reducing divorce to 2 years (should never have been bloody 4 in the first place)

Not really sure about the Women in the home bit. It needs changing, but I want to see what they propose to change about it or put in it's place first.

No to voting age of 16, and no to votes for citizens abroad - while I appreciated the hordes coming home to push through marriage equality, if a vote extends to someone who's granny was part Irish and who has never set foot in Ireland I would worry about the American-backed pro-life crowd that currently is funding the pro life campaign obtaining large amounts of passports & organising voting strategically to regress the country while it's inhabitants are trying to do the opposite.

I'm not sure on the rest.

Maryz Wed 27-Sep-17 15:01:26

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SocMcDuffin Wed 27-Sep-17 15:14:43

Probably sad

Those groups are highly organised, highly manipulative and have billions in funding. They are already infiltrating some innocuous enough groups here at home I suspect. My DM joined offered by her church. The mission statement was that it was a group to share and promote the Catholic faith with grandchildren. The siblings aren't bothered being C&E Catholics mostly and thought it was a nice way for DM to get out and about. A hobby of sorts. After about a year I realised DM had been bussed to Dublin twice to participate in a pro-life rally from the other side of the country, and was regularly getting pro-life sound-bite texts. And she's got pro-life posters too.

Grandkids have been brought to a prayer service a handful of times and not for years a few now. They are basically a front for a pro-life movement I suspect. But DM is fine with that because she is pro-life.

So I absolutely believe that if they think that they can sway voting in our country that way, they will. They've got the power and wealth to mobilse a mass passport drive and would round up pensioners and drive them anywhere to cast their vote - brainwashing them all the way.

It's fucking grim.

SocMcDuffin Wed 27-Sep-17 15:15:05

*joined a group

FadedRed Wed 27-Sep-17 15:24:30

Maryz and Co should you get an inkling that the Anti's are likely to be doing this, then let us know here. I, for one, would apply for an Irsih passport (Parents not random granny) in an attempt to thwart this happening. And I'd bet I wouldn't be the only one.

justforthisthread101 Wed 27-Sep-17 15:36:08

One of the reasons there was always behind the scenes nervousness about having citizens abroad vote was the thought that the North East United States would have had Sinn Féin in power before you could say Eirínn go brách in the days before there was much of a peace process.

It will be interesting to see the plans for that one.

SocMcDuffin Wed 27-Sep-17 16:26:04

justforthisthread101 Considering that vast amounts of funding for paramilitaries came from the US for a large part of the troubles I'd say the nervousness was quite justified with regard to SF.

Maryz Wed 27-Sep-17 16:39:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MarDhea Wed 27-Sep-17 19:52:07

Hmmm, to be the contrarian, I think Irish citizens outside the state should be able to vote in some form.

For instance, I'd support expat voting:

- if they were resident in Ireland within the last few years. 10 years?

- in referenda and presidential elections. Not local council elections. Unsure about Dáil and Seanad (if we still have one) elections, though other countries like France, Germany, UK let their expats vote as normal without imploding. Some places have separate constituencies for expats, so perhaps that's the way to go.

Many people (I was one) are forced out of Ireland by economic necessity, but only temporarily, and have very intention of returning quickly. While they still have a realistic stake in the country, I think it's okay for them to have a voice in how it's run... but a time limit is sensible.

Maryz Wed 27-Sep-17 21:56:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

justforthisthread101 Wed 27-Sep-17 22:21:44

@SocMcDuffin, exactly.

@MarDhea, I left by choice, which means I probably have a different take on it. I have no intention of moving back (unless that £155 Euromillions is coming my way and I can buy Luggala in Co. Wicklow - you can all come and visit), but I do think that while you're gone, you're kind of out. There's already the rule that you have 18 months to vote after you leave...I think any longer than that gets too complicated to justify.

@Maryz, I've seen about four threads today where I haven't bothered to post because it would just be to say "what Maryz said." Can you stop being so bloody sensible...I like to come onto MN for a row grin

Maryz Wed 27-Sep-17 22:25:29

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

justforthisthread101 Wed 27-Sep-17 22:37:53

Yeah....I saw the title of that one. Didn't click on it....then couldn't resist....then decided to stay out of it! I suggest warm milk with a drop of something in it before bed for you tonight!

libertyonhertravels Wed 27-Sep-17 22:43:15

I have lived out of Ireland for 12 years and definitely agree that I shouldn't have a vote. I will tell all family members in Ireland they have my full blessing to vote against that. In an ideal world I would love a vote but there are far too many potential Irish citizens who have never even set foot in the country.

Fingers crossed for sensible wording on the 8th. I will be deeply depressed if it's not repealed.

MarDhea Fri 29-Sep-17 10:28:30

But you're fighting a straw man here. It's not about every Irish passport holder getting a vote - that would be daft and I haven't heard anyone seriously proposing it.

There are apparently 300-400 thousand Irish nationals who left the state in the last 10 years (some returned, some left again, hence the range). For reference, the Irish electorate is around 3.3 million.

Letting expats vote in presidential elections? Not a big deal. Since the president is the international figurehead of the state, expats are affected by who holds the role. I think they deserve a vote on it.

Creating a special expat constituency with say 2-3 TDs for Dáil elections? I could get behind that. Many expats own property (or mortgages in negative equity, rather), hold pensions, have savings, etc. in the state so they are affected by Irish taxation and other policies. A separate constituency capped at small number of TDs would give them representation, but proportionately less than residents.

And if a particular expat feels they shouldn't have a say because they've no ties to Ireland any more... then don't vote. Same as any electorate, not everybody bothers.

Basically, I can see lots of acceptable ways it could work so it doesn't make sense to rule it out before seeing the specific proposal.

Maryz Fri 29-Sep-17 11:40:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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