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No Shamrock for Trump

(14 Posts)
user1485726492 Sun 29-Jan-17 21:54:31

Hi all,

As citizens of the world we should all be very troubled by developments in the United States. Trump is in power for a week so far and we have already heard news about building a wall between the United States and Mexico, removal of climate change data from the EPA website, removal of funding for organisations that provide information about abortion, publishing a list of crimes committed by immigrants, not allowing immigrants with valid visas into the United States, increasing military expenditure, re-opening of CIA internment camps, removal of privacy rights for non-US citizens and re-legalisation of torture (waterboarding). No thinking person could help but be outraged by these developments and what seems like a downward spiral into a worse world for all of us. We have been thinking about this for the past few days and have wondering if this is the point in our lives that we were going to look back on and wish we had done more to resist.

You might know that there has been a petition circulating calling on Enda Kenny not to attend the St. Patrick’s Day celebrations. The discussion so far in the Irish media regarding the proposal has focussed on the Muslim immigration ban as if this were the sole justification for his not going. While the Muslim ban is obviously terrible, and probably illegal, focussing on this particular policy misses the philosophical underpinning which is the real problem and the real issue we need to be fighting. Instead of focussing on the individual policy decision, the objection we have to Trump is much more fundamental than that.

We have heard from our politicians about how important the meeting with the President on St. Patrick’s Day is….but that’s exactly the point! Leo Varadkar, for example, has said that the meeting won’t be “smiles and shamrocks” but, of course, it obviously will be! Or, at least, that will be how it will be presented in the worldwide media.

Our politicians are our elected representatives and it is important for us all to make sure that they remember that - they represent us and hereby we withdraw our mandate to them to represent us to Trump on St. Patrick’s Day. There should be no gifts from the Irish people to Trump. We live in a democracy and we need to make our voices heard. When the next election comes around, if we are unsuccessful in this campaign we need to make sure that our politicians regret going against our collective will. They need to be assured that we will remember this issue and vote accordingly.

The symbolic value of not attending represents a national statement that we, the people of Ireland, not only condemn racism in the form of the Muslim ban but also the fundamental tyranny and fascism that Trump represents.

In 2015, we had the opportunity to stand as an example to the world when we voted “yes” in the marriage referendum and we have an opportunity to lead by example again now by refusing to allow our politicians to meet with Trump.

What to do?
Sign the petition:
Write to your TD
Like or share this message and get the word out: #NotInMyName

Amber76 Mon 30-Jan-17 01:04:25

I'm not sure how i feel about this - on the one hand i agree with what is written above. But on the other hand i think it is an invaluable opportunity for our Taoiseach to meet the US President.

Even if Trump is a disgusting and dangerous individual he is still the elected President.

I admired Barack Obama's professional manner with Trump - a man who is going to undo a lot of his hard work. I think if Obama had at any time refused to meet Trump or not engaged in the inauguration rituals it would have looked...odd.

Isn't it better to engage with a bully than to ignore them? It will be a good opportunity to discuss the undocumented Irish in the US?

I can see both sides of this argument.

OneWithTheForce Mon 30-Jan-17 01:14:17

It will be a good opportunity to discuss the undocumented Irish in the US?

If you were discussing with an actual politician who had a single thought of his own in his head about the undocumented Irish in the US then yes, it would be worth it to have that discussion. Trump is none of those things. Trump does not do discussion. He doesn't know how. It would be futile to even think you could get any sort of discussion on the issue.

Isn't it better to engage with a bully than to ignore them?

Not really. And certainly not the type who lives for the win. Trump thrives on getting what he wants. It's the only reason he ran for president. Denying him his audience is the best way to let him know he hasn't won "you". Also a very good way to enrage him enough that he'll show his barely concealed true colours. Which is what the world needs to see. In particular his supporters and those in any doubt that he can be reasoned with.

horizontilting Mon 30-Jan-17 09:37:22

Thanks for posting this, OP. I came onto Craicnet just to see if the petition had been shared here. It's just hit 28K.

I think the hashtag NotInMyName says it all very well.

horizontilting Mon 30-Jan-17 09:59:54

"Isn't it better to engage with a bully than to ignore them? It will be a good opportunity to discuss the undocumented Irish in the US?"

I don't want Enda placating a bully to get a special exemption for us. It's not about wanting a special exemption graciously given by Trump for the undocumented Irish - which he no doubt would if his ego is stroked, to the white, christian Irish. We are not the people really at risk here. It's about overall resistance to what Trump is doing - saying that this is wrong. That we do not, as a nation which Enda Kenny represents, endorse the horrific things Trump has started to do.

I am confident, knowing what Irish people are like, that Irish people in the US will have joined the protests this weekend. On an issue that does not primarily affect them. I am very relieved that I can have that sort of faith in Irish people.

OneWithTheForce Mon 30-Jan-17 10:34:23

Have you all seen/heard the mayor of Boston, Marty Walsh's speech?

MarDhea Mon 30-Jan-17 10:51:41

Unfortunately, a lot of Irish Americans are Trump supporters rather than protestors. There was a piece on the bbc website after the election that interviewed a depressing series of Trump voters in long-standing Irish American towns with place names like Derry. Some of these voters had been born in Ireland, so were immigrants themselves, and they still supported Trump. Ugh. sad

There are also plenty of Irish Americans against Trump - like Marty Walsh - and I'd really like to think they're in the majority but I don't know.

horizontilting Mon 30-Jan-17 12:02:19

I like to think initial Trump supporters will increasingly decide they're done giving him a chance. His approval ratings are in the minority already. Within a week. No-one can deny he moves fast. I suppose that means we'll see crisis point sooner.

I hope most people are appalled by what's happened this weekend even if they did vote for him.

That was a great speech, thanks for the heads-up.

OneWithTheForce Mon 30-Jan-17 12:56:54

In the same way that trump has given validation to those who wish to persecute and oppress I hope that the voices that are now speaking out, like Marty Walsh, will give confidence to others so that they feel able to say "i dont and won't support this". I'm sharing the shit out of everything for this reason, so that people who's need that validation can get it and know it's ok to speak up.

OneWithTheForce Mon 30-Jan-17 12:58:48

WHat i mean is, I hear a lot of people saying "we'll he is in now, that's It." In a resigned sort of way. But that's not it.

Arborea Mon 30-Jan-17 15:43:23

I have signed and shared the petition. I am afraid that you can't reason with bullies, and pointedly ignoring them is far more dignified and effective. And white. Irish people aren't Steve Bannon's chief targets anyway

If pushed I would send Aodhán ó Ríordáin 😉

horizontilting Mon 30-Jan-17 16:27:15

I had this email from the petition site the OP linked to - it seems that because we pre-clear travellers to the US on Irish soil we are in a somewhat unique position. Posting most of the email here as I thought some of you here might be interested in helping with a more direct campaign too:

US Homeland Security are refusing to enforce court rulings that stop deportations of people from certain countries at airports across the US. What’s happening has all the hallmarks of a slow burning coup.

People power needs to step up - and fast. To start with, we can put the government under serious pressure to get behind Minister Katherine Zappone's call for a review of the pre-clearance rules. She’s already said we might be breaking the law by letting US agents discriminate in Irish airports.

If thousands of us make phone calls to them asking for an immediate suspension to US pre-clearance at Dublin and Shannon airports - until we’re sure US federal and international law is being upheld - it could be enough to make them listen.

In less than two days, almost 30,000 people signed a petition asking Enda Kenny to take a stand against Trump.

[3] Here’s the thing though - it’s going to take a lot more than a petition to make our government do the right thing.

Ireland has a special deal with the US that means we ‘pre-clear’ people for entry into the US at Irish airports.

[4] In effect, this means US borders extend to Irish soil - and we have the power to change this.

Uplift members are powerful. There are now over 130,000 of us, and together we have won on big issues like taking in more refugees, stopping the sale of public land and keeping women’s refuges open.

mimishimmi Tue 07-Feb-17 06:17:44

And white. Irish people aren't Steve Bannon's chief targets anyway

For now. Bannon has likened himself to Cromwell. If they did get rid of all those peaky Muslims and Mexicans, guess who'd be up next. The Irish, almost more than anyone else in Europe , should know how this plays out.

hollyisalovelyname Sat 18-Feb-17 21:26:24

A week is a long time in politics.
Enda might not be going anyway ( says she hopefully)
Though they say he'll hang in there til April as then he will be the longest serving something or other in the Dail.

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