Any info on vaccinated who died of covid - delta variant

(24 Posts)
alwayswithhope Sun 13-Jun-21 16:57:23

Hey all, just reading about how 29% of those who died from delta covid variant were fully vaccinated. Is there any more info out there about them? Such as age / underlying conditions etc?

OP’s posts: |
MRex Sun 13-Jun-21 17:05:01

There haven't been enough deaths yet for that information to be meaningful.

Risk of death should be 95% in that double jabbed group and they make up only 29% of deaths instead. If 5% of deaths has become 61% then the risk of death has reduced dramatically.

At a certain point, the majority of deaths will be vaccinated because the majority of people will be vaccinated and:
1) someone has to be in the 5% who don't develop antibodies
2) someone has to be very frail or immune suppressed where any bug will carry them off but they've been exposed to covid so that's the one
3) someone has to die of other causes within 28 days of a positive test.
4) Immunity timeframe - two jabs may need more than 14 days for full immunity, especially for some older or vulnerable groups. I've no idea why scientists consistently keep using 2 weeks for efficacy when they know it takes longer (for AZ at least).

NeverForgetYourDreams Sun 13-Jun-21 17:06:11

They died 'with Covid' not 'of Covid'. I too would like to know more. Were they already suffering an illness. Their ages etc etc

12 die with Covid.....up to 1000 die usually on any one day

amicissimma Sun 13-Jun-21 17:06:45

People die. Over 1300 per day on average at this time of year. Presumably the majority are older and therefore double vaccinated. Some of them may have had Covid picked up in their throats/noses within 28 days of dying, but be unaffected by the Covid, or it may have been the Covid that killed them despite the vaccination.

It makes a difference, but we are not being told.

NeverForgetYourDreams Sun 13-Jun-21 17:11:44

amicissimma

People die. Over 1300 per day on average at this time of year. Presumably the majority are older and therefore double vaccinated. Some of them may have had Covid picked up in their throats/noses within 28 days of dying, but be unaffected by the Covid, or it may have been the Covid that killed them despite the vaccination.

It makes a difference, but we are not being told.


Because it suits them to keep this going. Life continues. People die every day.

TruelyonelastSchlep Sun 13-Jun-21 17:13:12

People that are good at maths worked out that out of the higher risk groups we would have expected 570 to have died. They calculated this from the cases, hospitalisation and group vaccination figures. Don't ask me how. Anyway 12 people instead of 570 is a big improvement. It also means 95% protection apparently too.

alwayswithhope Sun 13-Jun-21 17:37:54

RisK of death should be 95% in that double jabbed group and they make up only 29% of deaths instead

How is that calculated?

I was just wondering what their info was. I have a younger sister who is v high risk with a lung problem (25% lung capacity following on from a childhood illness). Fully vaccinated but now I’m starting to worry again as to who are those who are vaccinated but still dying. sad

I wonder if she should do a test to make sure she has antibodies so we would know if she’s actually protected. But I wish they’d give more info out.

OP’s posts: |

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strangeshapedpotato Sun 13-Jun-21 18:01:53

alwayswithhope

Hey all, just reading about how 29% of those who died from delta covid variant were fully vaccinated. Is there any more info out there about them? Such as age / underlying conditions etc?

It's 29% of those who died NOT "within this group of people 29% people died"!

e.g. Let's take your average 65 yr old. Let's assume their risk of dying from covid (unvaccinated) is 1%, i.e if 2000 are infected, 20 will die.

Let's vaccinate a bunch of them. Assume a protection of 95%. In that 2000 now only 1 will die.

Let's take a bunch of 40 year olds. Assume risk of death is 0.1%. In 2000 (unvaccinated) 2 will die.

4000 people - 3 deaths - 33% of those who died were vaccinated.

See - it doesn't mean anything!

Side note - vaccine failures happen because of a number of factors -
- faulty immune response to the vaccine
- compromised immune system when infected
- viral mutation that renders some people's protection worthless.

For the last bit - think of it like this - on the antigen, there may be 5 attack sites: A, B, C, D, E - different people's immune systems each choose a different target- 20% for each. Virus mutates and removes E. 20% of vaccinated people now have no immunity to new variant. 80% are unaffected by mutation. The real situation is more complex, with multiple sites etc, but in essence this is how it works and why vaccines are always about %'s, not "works/doesn't work".

HeyManIJustWantSomeMuesli Sun 13-Jun-21 18:10:16

These died WITH it, not necessarily from it, we don't even know if it contributed to their deaths.

Cornettoninja Sun 13-Jun-21 18:32:13

HeyManIJustWantSomeMuesli

These died WITH it, not necessarily from it, we don't even know if it contributed to their deaths.

I know this is an argument used during our peaks but it feels less likely to be the case now tbh. With fatality numbers so low I find it hard to believe that these reported deaths are not, primarily, due to covid i.e they may very well be elderly or with underlying conditions but they wouldn’t have died when they did if they hadn’t had covid and that’s what they were being treated for.

I’m also interested to know if these deaths have happened in those who were vulnerable to any illness. I’m sure it will be published eventually but it’s another piece of information that probably won’t be released until they have a reasonable conclusion to draw which I appreciate takes time.

User3253465621 Sun 13-Jun-21 18:36:53

Interesting that they left out which brand of vaccine, which seems like pretty crucial information. Pfizer/Moderna has always had a higher protection against variants (Kent, South African) in the past. But of course, any whisper of criticism against AZ is a smear campaign from the EU.

Cornettoninja Sun 13-Jun-21 18:40:17

I agree it’s interesting @User3253465621 but it’s just as likely that given the period of time it takes to build up antibodies (weeks) they simply don’t have reliable data as yet.

NCtitleofyoursextape Sun 13-Jun-21 18:43:10

I think it’s a valid question OP we need more information

TruelyonelastSchlep Sun 13-Jun-21 18:48:06

User3253465621

Interesting that they left out which brand of vaccine, which seems like pretty crucial information. Pfizer/Moderna has always had a higher protection against variants (Kent, South African) in the past. But of course, any whisper of criticism against AZ is a smear campaign from the EU.

Actually the India evidence from hospitalisations and deaths suggests that AZ is very effective against the delta variant. So you should maybe be wondering if the vaccine that has only been serum tested against it is the issue. However even then the figures for deaths are showing that instead of around 570 deaths in the high priority groups. We have only 12 from the fully vaccinated. Vaccines are all working as expected in that case. After all no one is saying they are 100% and some vulnerable people will still die if the get infected.

Nocutenamesleft Sun 13-Jun-21 18:50:56

Thank god for that!

When someone suggested this statistic. It scared me senseless.

TruelyonelastSchlep Sun 13-Jun-21 18:52:12

Oh and whispers or headlines against AZ always been allowed. Unlike other vaccines. People are so blind it is hilarious. Don't look at UK media or data alone. You have a much healthier knowledge of vaccines and risks that way.

MRex Sun 13-Jun-21 18:53:31

alwayswithhope

^RisK of death should be 95% in that double jabbed group and they make up only 29% of deaths instead^

How is that calculated?

I was just wondering what their info was. I have a younger sister who is v high risk with a lung problem (25% lung capacity following on from a childhood illness). Fully vaccinated but now I’m starting to worry again as to who are those who are vaccinated but still dying. sad

I wonder if she should do a test to make sure she has antibodies so we would know if she’s actually protected. But I wish they’d give more info out.

I got it from @BristOliver's twitter, which seemed about right and he's usually reliable.
mobile.twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1403984975788228611

Gingernaut Sun 13-Jun-21 18:58:53

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/11/delta-variant-is-linked-to-90-of-covid-cases-in-uk

About 2/3 of all patients appearing in A&E haven't been vaccinated at all.

PrincessNutNuts Sun 13-Jun-21 19:00:06

A young lad on Twitter makes a chart of the age info if that helps.

Orange is 10-29

Green is 20-29

Red is 30-39 etc

Sunnyfreezesushi Sun 13-Jun-21 19:11:56

I have a close family member with blood cancer and he was told that despite double vaccination he needs to be really, really careful when rates are rising because the vaccination alone may not protect him (and he is in remission and the condition is “controlled”). I think back to one of my parents who had terminal cancer and if he or she were given the vaccine, the same would have applied. We actually had the discussion re flu vaccine at the time and my parent ended up having it but with severe side effects and died 6 months later anyway. We never knew if it was the cancer or an actual infection they caught that killed them because cancer therapies lower your immunity to the extent that the common cold can be a killer.
There are many people in these camps and also very old and frail have been offered and have had this vaccine.

I would like to know how many double jabbed people under [75] years of age with no severe conditions (to be defined as expected life expectancy eg. 5 plus years) would have died of Covid despite vaccination. So define and declare. However, perhaps that would involve too much work and delays as eg the person’s GP would need to attest to health conditions and no idea what the legalities would be/consent issues etc.

TruelyonelastSchlep Sun 13-Jun-21 19:18:07

I think also if you look at this it is clear that even if one dose doesn't protect you so much once you have caught the virus. You can clearly see it should help to stop you getting infected in the first place. As someone that is only one dose so far I find that a bit reassuring. The virus is very much running through people that are unvaccinated.

Cornettoninja Sun 13-Jun-21 19:26:41

@Sunnyfreezesushi it’s more likely that the sample group is too small to draw a conclusion even if a pattern is currently emerging.

There’s an element of arse-covering leading that, but it’s also actually sensible to wait and see what emerges in time before releasing information that the public will likely take as binding.

alwayswithhope Sun 13-Jun-21 19:27:05

@Sunnyfreezesushi I would like to know how many double jabbed people under [75] years of age with no severe conditions (to be defined as expected life expectancy eg. 5 plus years) would have died of Covid despite vaccination

Yes this is what I was searching for! Doesn’t seem to be publicly available yet. Just wanting to know if we can let our guard down with DSis now she’s fully vaccinated or not! It’s never ending 🙈

OP’s posts: |
MonsterMash2210 Sun 13-Jun-21 19:51:57

They scientists believe we will have more reliable data over the next 2-4 weeks, so maybe we will have the data you are looking for then.

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