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Lesson to learn from Israel. Pfizer vaccine less effective than announced

(149 Posts)
Cormoran Tue 19-Jan-21 19:13:35

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/19/single-covid-vaccine-dose-in-israel-less-effective-than-we-hoped

It is known that a single dose doesn't guarantee whole protection, but Israel's numbers are showing that delaying the second dose might be a losing strategy.

So if any of you has received the first dose but not yet the second, keep acting as if you had received none and stay safe.

OP’s posts: |
LizardWar Tue 19-Jan-21 19:24:47

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Heybeendyingtomeetyou Tue 19-Jan-21 19:27:38

www.heraldscotland.com/news/19000542.covid-19-outbreak-hamilton-care-home-first-receive-vaccine/

Em777 Tue 19-Jan-21 19:29:54

It always seemed extremely daft to go against Pfizer’s own recommendations.

wonderwhatshappening1978 Tue 19-Jan-21 19:30:30

Hopefully those who were vaccinated will become less unwell though at least confused

PilatesPeach Tue 19-Jan-21 19:32:13

Interesting - DM today said that once 2 doses of Pfizer complete, it is quite possible that transmissions would be prevented as those vaccinated would not develop covid

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9162639/Pfizer-vaccine-prevent-transmission-coronavirus-others.html

LickEmbysmiling Tue 19-Jan-21 19:32:30

But the two doses do given even better than hoped results and stop transmission to a great degree.
Only giving one dose is an emergency measure.

Em777 Tue 19-Jan-21 19:37:10

Israel’s coronavirus czar has warned that the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine offers less protection than expected, as he blamed the country’s surge in Covid cases partly on the new British variant.

Nachman Ash said many Israelis had caught Covid in between their first and second doses of the Pfizer vaccine, suggesting that the first jab is “less effective than we thought,” according to Army Radio.

His remarks underline the importance of receiving a second vaccine dose, which according to recent studies is more than 90 per cent effective in protecting against coronavirus.

Israel has already given the first of two jabs to nearly 30 per cent of the population and on Tuesday announced it would extend eligibility to those aged 40 and over.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/19/israeli-covid-czar-says-first-pfizer-jab-not-effective-hoped/

WiseUpJanetWeiss Tue 19-Jan-21 19:37:19

Cormoran

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/19/single-covid-vaccine-dose-in-israel-less-effective-than-we-hoped

It is known that a single dose doesn't guarantee whole protection, but Israel's numbers are showing that delaying the second dose might be a losing strategy.

So if any of you has received the first dose but not yet the second, keep acting as if you had received none and stay safe.

This is clearly the correct message about behaviour - we know that the first dose affords somewhere between 50 and 90% protection only - but that article is far from clear. The vaccination programme only began on 19 December, so a relatively small % of people will have reached the 14 day mark (which is when the trial began to show efficacy in the vaccine arm) before they became infected.

PilatesPeach Tue 19-Jan-21 19:41:31

I have had my first dose of Pfizer at the weekend. Second dose booked for 10 weeks' time. I act as though I have not been vaccinated, nothing for me has changed. Once I have had the 2nd dose, I will continue to follow whatever rules are in place. It would not occur to me to do otherwise.

HugeAckmansWife Tue 19-Jan-21 19:41:41

Spokesman on R4 tonight said the studies were v v limited numbers and no conclusions should be drawn.

notevenat20 Tue 19-Jan-21 19:43:40

The Guardian is not a good place for science news. Immunity from the first dose increases over three weeks. It would be very interesting if they had told us how many had got ill after 15 days, say, and how ill they had got but we will need a more scientifically literate source for that.

Motorina Tue 19-Jan-21 19:46:20

I don't think there's enough information in that article to draw any conclusions at all.

loveyouradvice Tue 19-Jan-21 19:49:20

I think this is really important... especially when combined with the studies that show many over 80s get a lower response to one inoculation than the under 80s.... Are we really protecting our over 80s? Or will we only have done this once they have the second shot?

Lifeisabeach09 Tue 19-Jan-21 19:51:54

LizardWar

I think there was a strong suspicion that the current vaccines do not prevent transmission.

Nicola Sturgeon was very clear today that because of this, restrictions will be in place for the foreseeable future, primarily to prevent Long COVID.

She was hopeful that full lockdown will not need to be in force indefinitely. But this is certainly a possibility if there is an escaped mutant.

Strong suspicion is an understatement.

The vaccine cannot give you COVID-19 infection, and a full course will reduce your chance of becoming seriously ill. We do not yet know whether it will stop you from catching and passing on the virus, but we do expect it to reduce this risk. So, it is still important to follow the guidance in your local area to protect those around you.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-what-to-expect-after-vaccination/what-to-expect-after-your-covid-19-vaccination#can-you-go-back-to-normal-activities-after-having-your-vaccine

Motorina Tue 19-Jan-21 19:53:46

@loveyouradvice - which studies, please?

frumpety Tue 19-Jan-21 19:55:54

I thought the first dose only gave an efficacy of just over 50% and that the second dose brought that up to well over 90% ? I have had my first dose, but won't be changing anything about how I work or live until a good few weeks after the second dose, which isn't until mid March.
The point is, its a start, we are on the way to a way back to normal, we are not back to normal and anyone who thinks having one dose of the vaccine means they can go back to normal straight away needs to understand this.

titchy Tue 19-Jan-21 20:00:16

Isn't this from the the 'bears shit in the woods' school of journalism?

We know one dose isn't enough. No one has ever said it is. confused I don't know either how we can look at Israel and say that means our policy of a delayed second dose is a poor one - given that isn't Israel's strategy.

herecomesthsun Tue 19-Jan-21 20:00:19

So there may be limited information available as yet?

If they break the data down into very small groups, it is statistically more difficult to identify differences between the groups.

I'd really like to know as much as possible about whether having 1 dose decreases hospital admissions and deaths.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow Tue 19-Jan-21 20:14:22

I wish l felt optimistic about this vaccine. But l just don’t.

I think the virus may evade it, or it will not stop transmission. How can they vaccinate an entire population against a new strain every year?😢

Cormoran Tue 19-Jan-21 20:19:07

@WiseUpJanetWeiss it may have only started on the 19th December but 22% of the population has already received the first dose against 4.5% for the 2 doses and highest number of infection in last 3 months despite a lockdown.

OP’s posts: |
Poppingnostopping Tue 19-Jan-21 20:32:16

I fundamentally disagree with the delay between doses, I think or rather thought as the ship has sailed, that they should have done the first group with two doses exactly as specified even if that meant half the amount of people got them- precisely to see what the effect would be in the much older (and different than the clinical trial) population, and once that was established, after say three months, plus one month evaluation, roll it out.

It would be horrible waiting to find out if the first one million got great immunity, but then we would have a framework for quickly going forward with doing the same or adapting the regime at that time point in a less vulnerable population.

You don't deviate from the manufacturer's dosage schedule first time out, you just don't. I don't care if some committees said it might be ok, what they meant was we are so in the shit we might as well throw the dice, but now we don't really know what works and what doesn't and whether to keep going with the wider spacing. If I'd had one Pfizer vaccine I'd be pretty upset to be experimented on.

Even if it's a 'success', it's not a surprise to anyone who works in medicine that the pharma industries data is great but real-life population data turns out to be different, often worse, especially in a much sicker and non-screened population.

Cormoran Tue 19-Jan-21 20:35:43

Absolutely true. In clinical trials, you recruit healthy people, not people with underlying conditions or suboptimal health (very overweight, hypertension, ....)

Time will tell I guess ... definitely not what I was hoping for

OP’s posts: |
MadameBlobby Tue 19-Jan-21 20:41:11

This is hopeless. Wtf is the point of the vaccine id not to do what every other bloody vaccine on the planet seems to do and stop the spread of serious illness. I want the vaccine but to get my life back I’m not going to be that bothered if it’s not actually going to do that and we still have to put up with all this shit. What’s the point?

MadameBlobby Tue 19-Jan-21 20:42:06

Cormoran

Absolutely true. In clinical trials, you recruit healthy people, not people with underlying conditions or suboptimal health (very overweight, hypertension, ....)

Time will tell I guess ... definitely not what I was hoping for

I thought the Covid trials used a wide range of people?

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