Vitamin D for the vulnerable

[PuzzledObserver]

At first, I thought this was good news:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55108613

Then I read on, and saw they were offering a dose of 10ug. Better than nothing.... but will not be enough to bring levels up to optimal for protection against respiratory viruses.

I started taking 25ug in late February, based on watching Dr John Campbell on YouTube. In May, I had my blood levels tested - came back around 63 nmol/l, which is slightly below and adequate level. Upped my dose to 100ug and a few months later I tested at 123 nmol/l, in the optimal range.

Granted I am obese (which tends to deplete vit D levels), but I am white and spend plenty of time outdoors - and even on a 25 ug dose my levels were not adequate. 10ug is not going to be enough for these people.

The cost difference for giving a higher dose would be minimal.

[TheCountessofFitzdotterel]

What a pity. Takes them so long and then they do this.

[BahHumbygge]

Agreed, they need to give out a dose of around 4000 iu per day. Even 2000 would be a big improvement.

Each 1000 iu (25 µg) raises blood levels by 25 nmol/l.

So 4000 iu (100 µg) will raise blood levels by 100 nmol/l

The threshold between severe and mild covid is around 75 nmol/l and the ideal blood test range is 100 - 150 nmol/l for the prevention of both communicable and non-communicable disease.

Typical blood levels in the winter can be as low as 25 nmol/l in the UK, especially in populations such as the elderly, BAME, obese, housebound people and shift workers.

By merely giving out 400 iu (10 µg) they are raising blood levels by a measly 10 Points!

It's like a forecast storm surge, and the army giving out to householders a rolled up pair of jeans to tuck around the doorstep, instead of several filled sandbags, where each sandbag = 1000 iu vit D in this metaphor. It almost seems as if it's designed to fail and they can turn around and say vitamin D is ineffective, when there's evidence pouring in that it is very much effective in protecting against covid IN THE APPROPRIATE DOSE!

www.nutraingredients.com/Article/2020/10/01/COVID-19-Scientists-raise-the-vitamin-D-alarm#

vitamin-d-covid.shotwell.ca/

www.drdavidgrimes.com/2020/10/covid-19-and-vitamin-d-summary-of.html?spref=tw

[CrunchyCarrot]

Couldn't agree more, BahHumbygge

400 IU is pretty useless. Even my GP advised 1200 IU daily. Many of us need more, I need 4000 IU daily or else my levels begin to plummet. Plus we're going into winter so getting it from the sun is out.

[CovidPostingName]

@BahHumbygge I think you've penalty answered this on another thread before, but forgive me. What level of K2 do we need with a 4000iu D3 tablet? Are the 100mcg K2 + 4000iu D3 combos, which seem the most available, enough? Thanks!

[diplodocusinermine]

Must admit I was a bit at:
'But there is no evidence that vitamin D protects against or treats Covid-19, although health officials have been asked to go back over the existing research.'
I thought there was ever increasing evidence that people with low VitD had much worse outcomes.

[AntiHop]

Totally agree, it's ridiculous.

[BahHumbygge]

CovidPostingName... yea, that's the right amount of K2, I take 5000 D3 and 100 µg of K2. I do also eat a K2 rich diet, regularly eating gouda/jarlsberg type cheese, eggs, proper butter and liver/pâté etc. Vegans and people eating a convenience/processed type diet should ensure they are taking K2 with D3 as it ensures appropriate calcium management in the body... shuttling it towards the bones and teeth and away from the soft tissue and organs.

[doodleygirl]

can anyone recommend a good brand? There are so many too choose from I feel like a rabbbit in the headlights.

[Poppystars]

Can anyone recommend a K2 brand and dose?
I have had issues with low Vit d for a few years and told to buy 25ug/1000IU but nit heard of k2 before.

[monkeytennis97]

Agree. Been taking 4000/5000IU a day for months. DC is in a care home and Drs have confirmed he should be taking 800-1000IU a day. Happier with that than the measly 400IU government recommendation.

[OddBoots]

@diplodocusinermine

Must admit I was a bit at:
'But there is no evidence that vitamin D protects against or treats Covid-19, although health officials have been asked to go back over the existing research.'
I thought there was ever increasing evidence that people with low VitD had much worse outcomes.

I might be wrong but when I saw that my thoughts were that maybe they were trying to avoid quacks selling Vit D as a cure for covid.

[Mumof3andlovingit]

@Poppystars

Can anyone recommend a K2 brand and dose?
I have had issues with low Vit d for a few years and told to buy 25ug/1000IU but nit heard of k2 before.

If you are deficient your GP should prescribe you some vit d.
I am deficient and have been given 500mcg capsules to take weekly. You can’t buy that over the counter.

[PineappleUpsideDownCake]

I'm obese and wanting to suppliment but get so confused with the differing amounts recommended.

[monkeytennis97]

@PineappleUpsideDownCake

[BahHumbygge]

Doodleygirl... I've had Natures Aid from my health food shop and Phoenix Nutrition online and I can recommend them, they seem good quality and I've had great customer service from Phoenix. Ask for recommendations in your health food shop, or read the reviews on Amazon etc, just make sure they ring true as some of the reviews on there can be fake. Ensure you're buying a decent dose, ie around 2000 - 4000 iu per day.

[BahHumbygge]

Pineapple, if I were you I'd start taking 4000 iu per day (100 micrograms), that's the upper recommended amount from the NHS that's considered safe for (almost) everyone. Download the D Minder app for your phone and set your details in there, such as weight, height, skin type etc and what you want your target blood level of vitamin D to be, and it will suggest to you how much to take. The latest scientific research from vitamin D experts is that 100 - 150 nmol/l is optimum, based on modern day tribes who live an outdoor ancestral lifestyle.

You'll need to take it daily for around 3 months in order to achieve that level. After a few weeks get a finger prick blood test from www.vitamindtest.org.uk/ (direct to public NHS test for £29) or your GP if they're obliging and check you're on target.

[alreadytaken]

"The threshold between severe and mild covid is around 75 nmol/l and the ideal blood test range is 100 - 150 nmol/l for the prevention of both communicable and non-communicable disease. "

I've seen no evidence to support this and one study that showed no benefit above 55 nmol/l for covid.

The amount being sent out is too low for people who have almost certainly been indoors more than usual this year but unsupported statements dont help.

[BahHumbygge]

Letter in the BMJ (5/10/20) stating that levels of 75 - 150 nmol/l are optimal for mitigating infection risks:

"There are now close to 30 or so studies demonstrating that having optimal blood levels of 25(OH)-vitamin D (75-150 nmol/L) reduces covid-19 risks: reduced risk of infection; reduced risk of severe disease; reduced risk of dying. Many researchers now regard the evidence as ‘overwhelming’. Despite this, there still will be those who say that we need ‘more research’, but in the meantime, there is little to be lost (vitamin D supplements are inexpensive and have low risk of toxicity) and a huge amount to gain by recommending a decent daily dose of vitamin D3 (say 1-2,000 IU for children and 4-5,000 IU for adults)."

www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3872/rr

[MercyBooth]

I started taking Vitamin D today. 1000IU

[MercyBooth]

I bought mine from Superdrug. Its the Vitabiotics one. Ive used the Boots own brand ones in past winters but theyve sold out here.

[cracracatlady]

My gp said to take 1000 iu, is that not enough? My level were low, I don’t recall the actual numbers though, this was around 8 weeks ago. Gp said I’ll get retested after 12 weeks. So confusing

[Muddybootsblister]

I’ve been taking 2000IU per day since 2015 on the advice of my oncologist (who’s been petitioning NICE for years about how it benefits the immune system). But I still got Covid 😬

[ILookAtTheFloor]

I was taking 2000iu a day since March, however after reading the very knowledgeable posters on Mumsnet I've been taking 4000iu for the past 2 weeks and will keep doing so. I get mine from Just Vitamins and I've found that company excellent--I've also ordered vit c/ zinc combined and ubiquinol as I'm TTC.

[Livedandlearned]

Vit D doesn't stop you catching covid but the it does affect the severity and outlook

[Acorncat]

I've been taking 1000iu for ages and got tested and my levels were only 34 nmol/L! I've upped to 4000iu and will retest in a few months. I don't see how 400iu is enough at all!