Reopening on 2nd December: remember this.

[wanderings]

That is what our glorious leader said, that we waited three hours to hear, and we must hold him to account on it. Tier 4 restrictions will end on 2nd Dec, and will return to 3 or below on 2nd December. That is what he stated CATEGORICALLY, and yes, we did hear him right; he did not say that it would merely be "reviewed" on 2nd December, he said tier 4 restrictions would be REMOVED.

It's nice to have an end date to this new misery in sight, but unfortunately the oath came from a face with a nose longer than Pinocchio's. The single way in which our glorious leader is most likely to fuck up everybody this time round is by NOT keeping his word on this. After all, this is the man who promised "we can turn this virus around in twelve weeks" and "normalish by Christmas". Little was said about what they might achieve in this latest missile attack on people's livelihoods, but we could easily hear "we didn't achieve what we hoped, we never told you about it anyway, it's your fault anyway, so it's lasting longer" on 1st December.

Businesses need to plan for reopening on 2nd December, and be very public about it, so that if the government reneges on this promise, the damage done will be very clear indeed. The government is likely to spin their way out of allowing things back to how they are now on 2nd December: we must not be brainwashed into letting this happen.

If the government does actually keep their word on this, and it's business as usual (at least, as it is now) on 2nd December, they might actually do something to restore some public trust.

Remember also that if this lockdown is having the effect that it is supposed to have, many regions should be returning to LOWER tiers than they are in now. We do not expect areas which are in tier 2 or below now to find themselves in 3 on 2nd December.

Remember this. Watch the government, not your neighbours.

[Hellononame]

The prime minister said he expects the lockdown to last until 2 December, after which England's regional tiered system would be reintroduced.

But Cabinet Office Minister Michael Gove told Sky News the lockdown could be extended beyond that deadline.

He told the programme ministers would "review progress" with the aim of seeing the R rate - the number of people that one infected person will infect - fall below 1.

From bbc.

[vera99]

30k civil servants are being deployed to cope with the Brexit clusterfuck approaching at a rate of knots- precious few world-beating resources to cope with a once in a century pandemic I'm afraid.

[Polkadotties]

Gove this morning

[Wanderings]

That is precisely the point, about Gove. The spin machine is being employed already: they probably spent three hours yesterday squabbling over who would be the smug guy doing this. Public conditioning has started. The public expects the government to break their promise; the government knows the public expects it. So they keep doing it. Again and again and again. The government u-turns; the public meekly accepts it, as the government knows we will.

This is what we, the public, need to be fighting. We can’t fight the virus, but we can and should and must fight the government systematically breaking every promise they make. We the public must change our response: post on social media “we expect business as usual (as now at least) on 2nd December”, not “it’s likely to be extended beyond then”. The promise-breaking needs to become the exception, not the rule. Right now, it is very much the rule.

There’s a saying “if you budget for 50% absence, you get 50% absence”. Self-fulfilling prophecy. That is what is happening here. We can do something about this.

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

This is what we, the public, need to be fighting. We can’t fight the virus, but we can and should and must fight the government systematically breaking every promise they make. We the public must change our response: post on social media “we expect business as usual (as now at least) on 2nd December”, not “it’s likely to be extended beyond then”. The promise-breaking needs to become the exception, not the rule. Right now, it is very much the rule.

Posting that on social media won’t change a thing. The only thing your changing is Boris lying, us knowing he’s lying and them knowing we know to Boris lying and then thinking he’s got away with it.

Boris lies. He’s built his career on it. He doesn’t really care if you know it or not. The only way of actually dealing with it is to get him out of power. And as much as the backbenchers are pissed off I’m not sure they are quite ready for a vote of no confidence yet. The party is more important.

[blueangel19]

Quote wanderings S so you hate Boris but what is your plan? Please give us one in detail. I am interested.

[blueangel19]

The end to this misery is when the virus is under control so let us know how you see it?

[Rosehip10]

Gove this morning was stating "the data/science" could result in extension (likely probably)

[IrmaFayLear]

Boris cannot stop the virus.

So he keeps his promise to open up on 2nd December. And if the virus is still raging? Is raging worse than ever?

What European leader has halted the virus? It’s a virus - if we can’t defeat it by vaccination we are all fucked (except China...).

[Rosehip10]

@Wanderings Yeah, cause the government really give a shit about more people moaning on social media/Mumsnet

[thesunwillout]

I thought we were going back to the tier system after lockdown?

[Qasd]

I mean he did say that yes but then he said he wouldn’t lockdown again, he said we would open primary schools to all students before the summer, he said that orginal a level results would stand...what boris says and what boris does are polar opposites most of the time, I wouldn’t make plans for December myself!!

[dollychopss]

Poor Boris he is not a scientist etc blame anyone ? Blame China who silenced people, shut off Beijing and let others fly all over the world and also could any of you do better !!!! No government would have done better and all European countries are going through the same
Rant over

[thesunwillout]

Ignore me I misread 4 to 3 tier

[dollychopss]

Sorry blame the ccp not the innocent people

[TokyoSushi]

There is no way this will end on 2nd December. Absolute best case is that we'll return to an even more restricted Tier 3.

[rwalker]

Honestly I don't understand why any intelligent person would take this a gospel .The simple answer is they don't know if it has the desired affect then yes 2nd dec if not then they will have to extend it.

NO PARTY would be able to pin point a date that we could come out of lockdown when numbers dropped enough.

It's an evolving picture which need to be reviewed and action taken as the numbers fluctuate .

[vera99]

@dollychops thanks for clarification I now know who to blame. Though since Johnson has royally ficked up everything he has ever done or grandstanded on other efforts I don't expect he has changed now. Let's t'celebrate Getting Brexit Done and all his other wonderful creations for t'Red Wall.

[dollychopss]

[quote vera99]@dollychops thanks for clarification I now know who to blame. Though since Johnson has royally ficked up everything he has ever done or grandstanded on other efforts I don't expect he has changed now. Let's t'celebrate Getting Brexit Done and all his other wonderful creations for t'Red Wall.[/quote]
Zzzz

[Flamingopants]

My understanding was hopefully the new restrictions end on 2nd December, no one can be sure as it depends on the rates of the virus.

[blueangel19]

Poor Boris he is not a scientist etc blame anyone ? Blame China who silenced people, shut off Beijing and let others fly all over the world and also could any of you do better !!!! No government would have done better and all European countries are going through the same
Rant over

This

[blueangel19]

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
― Albert Einstein

[Appuskidu]

They’re saying already it will probably be longer.

[Mydogdoesntlisten]

I agree with wanderings.
It's a shame it's so long until the next election.

[wanderings]

I did not say "Boris said we would come out of lockdown on 2nd December". I said Boris said that tier 4 would end on 2nd December, and restrictions would return to the levels they are at now, or lower.

It was made very clear (that is, until the spin doctors start saying "actually, we didn't say that") that this new lockdown is NOT about eradicating the virus; even Boris wasn't pretending that. It's about LOWERING it. The regional 3-tier system was sold to us on an experimental basis to be monitored - fair enough, it's been shown to be ineffective. But this lockdown was sold to us on a different basis: that it's about REDUCING the numbers, with the hope of relaxing things in time for Christmas. The Welsh firebreaker was sold to the public on the same basis; will Drakeford keep his word and end it on 9th November, as he said, come what may? We the public know that it will take time for the restrictions to have effect.

My understanding (from the usual clear-as-mud briefing) is that these four weeks are about REDUCING the numbers, not about eliminating them; and that afterwards, the restrictions would return to what they were before. Yes, Boris and his merry men have already started the spin, spin, spin, we didn't really mean four weeks, we actually meant four months, with Gove this morning. Boris was tired when he said 2nd December, or he read his autocue wrong, or Dominic pulled the wrong string, so you misread his lips.

My point is: why are we tolerating this? Why do we expect, endorse, and allow such despicable standards of economy with the truth from those with the power to seriously ruin lives, whose wages we pay? When politicians make pledges and promises with no intention of keeping them, why do we just shrug and say "it's what politicians do, you can tell they're lying because their lips move"? Why are we not more furious about it? Some people who lie to the police or in court get sent to prison for perjury (unless their name is Dominic Cummings); why do our politicians get away with such dishonesty? This is what I think is the real problem, not the virus. If politicians had more integrity in general, people would have more respect for them.

What makes it really difficult for businesses and people to plan anything is this approach of "there MIGHT be a lockdown, which MIGHT end on a certain date". If we have got to have these rolling lockdowns, and we know it's only about mitigating risk, rather than eliminating it, why not give them fixed start and end dates, instead of constantly keeping the public wondering?

Next slide, please.