You Gov survey assumed having C19 once equals immunity

[20mum]

A survey asked how scared people are of catching Covid19, adding an option to tick a box marked "This is not applicable to me because I have already had it ".

This seems stunning. It is perfectly well known that Covid19 can be contracted a second time. What is worse, unlike some infections, the second infection is more dangerous than the first, because the symptoms are more severe, the risk of dying is greater, and the Long Covid after effects are more damaging.

People taking a You Gov survey will not expect to be given life-risking dangerous misinformation. Early in the year, before much was known, there was an assumption that becoming infected would give immunity at least for a while. It seems however that the antibodies fade remarkably quickly, and that reinfection is possible shortly after recovering from the first illness.

[DamitJanet]

But it is an opinion a lot of people have, misguided yes but an opinion. To me it seems completely appropriate to be in the survey as there will be people out there who aren’t worried because for this reason and it’s useful to capture that rather than they be lumped in with the people who are just not concerned. Those who’ve had it, but are knowledgable enough to know that’s no guarantee and are still worried wouldn’t be selecting that option.
People who are taking a You Gov survey are giving opinions, not seeking information.

[HomerRoberts]

What is worse, unlike some infections, the second infection is more dangerous than the first, because the symptoms are more severe, the risk of dying is greater

Where did you get this info from? I understand this appears to have been seen in a couple of cases, but that there’s not enough data about this to draw any conclusions.

[Frazzled13]

I wouldn’t see it as them giving out that information, more that they want to see how many people are thinking “I don’t need to be worried because I’ve already had it”. As opposed to people who aren’t worried at all because they think if they catch it they’ll be fine.

[WouldBeGood]

Your OP is not a position accepted by scientists at all, and is unnecessary scaremongering.

Antibodies may not last, but there are other T cells too.

There is very very little recording of reinfections. Apart from anecdotally on mumsnet. And often with negative Covid tests, “which must have been wrong”.

[JacobReesMogadishu]

I can see why they’ve asked the question....if people believe this they want to know and can then do campaigns accordingly.

Maybe they should put a caveat after the question saying that this isn’t correct? But then that could influence answers?

[MoirasRoses]

You are wrong though, there’s been very few reported second infections & all but one of these people had milder infections second time around. We cannot conclusively say it’ll be better or worse really. Given how rampant spread was in March & the knowledge antibodies probably only lash a few months, I’d say there’s a really high chance that many people are catching it again & are asymptomatic or so mild, they just feel a little under the weather.

If you go out into the real world OP, you’ll find most people are not losing their shit over COVID in the same way Mumsnet is.

[Scootingthebreeze]

@20mum

A survey asked how scared people are of catching Covid19, adding an option to tick a box marked "This is not applicable to me because I have already had it ".

This seems stunning. It is perfectly well known that Covid19 can be contracted a second time. What is worse, unlike some infections, the second infection is more dangerous than the first, because the symptoms are more severe, the risk of dying is greater, and the Long Covid after effects are more damaging.

People taking a You Gov survey will not expect to be given life-risking dangerous misinformation. Early in the year, before much was known, there was an assumption that becoming infected would give immunity at least for a while. It seems however that the antibodies fade remarkably quickly, and that reinfection is possible shortly after recovering from the first illness.

Speaking as someone who is currently covid positive and feel dreadful, please clarify your source for saying second infections are worse and more deadly. I feel so unwell that I can only get up to go to toilet and then lay breathless and drained after. Please don't put up frightening quotes without quantify them. It's not fair

[Tfoot75]

Your post is total nonsense. I think there have been about 8 documented cases of reinfection in the world. Chicken pox is generally accepted to give life long immunity, yet it'll be easy to find quite a few people who have had it multiple times.... Also, out of documented reinfection, I believe only ONE had a worse case and every other had no symptoms the second time.

You're trying to get science from a very low number of anomalies, it just doesn't work.

[ItsNotPinkItsSalmon]

Are you getting your science from Boris?

[MummyPop00]

No OP.

Antibodies may fade but they are just one part of the immune system.

T-cells from SARS-Cov have been found & viable 17 years after infection.

Also, in addition to that:

‘these T cells displayed robust cross-reactivity to the N protein of SARS-CoV-2’

www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2550-z

[WouldBeGood]

@Scootingthebreeze please don’t worry, the post is total nonsense. I’m sorry it’s worried you.

Hope you feel better soon.

[NaughtipussMaximus]

It is perfectly well known that Covid19 can be contracted a second time. What is worse, unlike some infections, the second infection is more dangerous than the first, because the symptoms are more severe, the risk of dying is greater, and the Long Covid after effects are more damaging.

There are a lot of assumptions here. There have been some cases publicised where people have contracted it a second time, yes. But not very many. There have been some cases publicised when the second infection is worse than the first, yes. But it's certainly not true that the second infection is invariably more dangerous or has more risk of "long Covid". Millions of people across the world have had Covid once - we have definitely not seen millions of people reinfected with a more serious version of the disease. So the logical extrapolation is that either most people aren't catching it twice, or most people who do aren't getting a more serious infection the second time. Don't scare-monger, it's extremely irresponsible.

[Jrobhatch29]

Do you have any evidence to support that symptoms are more severe, you have a higher risk of death and Long Covid is worse a second time? Or are you needlessly scaring people?

[Eyewhisker]

OP Please listen to Tuesday’s edition of the World at One on BBC Sounds. A top U.K. immunologist came on to dampen down the scarmongering headlines about antibodies fading. Antibodies in the blood are only one part of the immune system but the easiest to measure. The flu nasal spray given to children protects against the flu but produces no antibodies in the blood.

Memory T-cells reproduce antibodies when they are needed but they won’t always be in the blood for the simple reason that they are not needed.

[Scootingthebreeze]

[quote WouldBeGood]@Scootingthebreeze please don’t worry, the post is total nonsense. I’m sorry it’s worried you.

Hope you feel better soon.[/quote]
Thank you

[Aragog]

The number of confirmed re infections is actually very low at present.

The quote about the second time round being worse appears to be from one known case where that happened. The the other few cases it's not always been the case at all, bearing in mind the confirmed numbers of second infection is very low.

The immunity thing is also not yet known. The studies have looked at only one or two types of immunity and there are other ways that immunity can occur that hasn't yet been properly researched such a T cells.

[Kitcat122]

This seems stunning. It is perfectly well known that Covid19 can be contracted a second time. What is worse, unlike some infections, the second infection is more dangerous than the first, because the symptoms are more severe, the risk of dying is greater, and the Long Covid after effects are more damaging.

Who says its worse and more dangerous second time? Genuine question from someone who has had it.

[chobmon]

Crikey, I had COVID last month and was pretty unwell. Just reading this opening OP has made me feel panicky, even though I think it's nonsense.

[WouldBeGood]

Just to say again, the OP is bollocks, please don’t worry, people

[Aragog]

I am desperately hoping there is some immunity, at least for a few months after.

Once the GP gives me the OK I will be back at school, teaching across the various year groups, with no SDing or anything. My concern is that school will assume I am now immune so no mitigation will be in place. I really hope I am - I am already clinically vulnerable, the complications Covid has so far left me with add to this vulnerability. I will continue to do what I can and hope that immunity does exist!

[20mum]

Under twelves are now thought to be spreaders, because they so rarely have symptoms, nobody could know they have been infectious for one or more periods of time

Possibly the people who cannot comprehend statistics might educate themselves by listening to a few back issues of More or Less on Radio 4. (Statistical literacy is not necessarily widespread in the general population, nor among academics or even the wrong sort of scientist. One who once had a job for a chemical firm, and once went to university, has been given a page in a tabloid, essentially to spread disinformation, just as someone calling himself a doctor could usually be found to declare there is no harm in smoking) .

It would be factually justifiable to assert that the extent of Covid19 is known, and furthermore, that the extent of re-infection is known, only if something had happened at the start of the year, which did not: Either the whole population, or, more realistically, an extremely large and representative proportion of known individuals, should have been recruited on a basis of being re-tested weekly.

Because this did not happen, it is not possible to be sure if people with no symptoms were in fact infected. It is known, that random and group testing has shown the large majority of carriers are asymptomatic.

People who felt ill with flu like symptoms were not the most likely people to have had covid and recovered from it. People who felt absolutely fine would have vastly outnumbered them, would never have been tested, and therefore never be aware they had contracted the virus, and, probably, passed it on without ever knowing.

Neither they nor anyone else would, of course, have the least idea if they had been infected at all, infected twice, or infected more than twice, all without having any symptoms, and on each occasion, carrying transmittable virus round with them to endanger everyone else.

[DottyCharlotti]

Reported for ridiculous scare mongering. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[MushMonster]

@MummyPop00 so am I getting you right? People who had SARS do already have a built in immunity to covid?
There is another thread about cases in China, and I always thought that if a virus starts in an area, at least part of the population will have some immunity. Maybe that strand of the virus is nastier, but you would expect that thay have been in contact with similar viruses before?

I have not seen anywhere that the second infection could be worst for covid? Any links?

[KnightsofColumbusThatHurt]

It is perfectly well known that Covid19 can be contracted a second time. What is worse, unlike some infections, the second infection is more dangerous than the first, because the symptoms are more severe, the risk of dying is greater, and the Long Covid after effects are more damaging.

What do people get out of coming on here and posting total bullshit like this?

[MushMonster]

There are volunteers doing the Zoe app and surely UK is testing some communities as example. But well, there have also been other tests in other countries, and this gets reported to WHO.
I know Italy took a whole town to test. And they got to the asymptomatic transmision pretty swiftly. I read an article about it ages ago.
They will share all the data they get and compare their findings.