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“Europe stays committed to in-person classes as school outbreaks remain rare”

(53 Posts)
notevenat20 Mon 28-Sep-20 07:32:24

What do people think about this article?

www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/coronavirus-outbreaks-schools-europe/2020/09/27/0dd19bf6-ff48-11ea-b0e4-350e4e60cc91_story.html

The whole thing is fascinating but this stuck out for me

“ Viral spread in school appears rare enough, he said, that Belgian policymakers think having in-person classes might actually be safer than virtual schooling, assuming students tend to be less rigorous about social distancing when they’re not being supervised in classrooms.”

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TrojanWhore Mon 28-Sep-20 07:46:08

The article is behind a paywall for me.

But from the excerpt, of course it's stating the bleeding obvious that people are safer in an environment where distancing is enforced if you compare that to unpoliced places

MsAwesomeDragon Mon 28-Sep-20 07:48:33

There's no social distancing being enforced in schools here though (most schools physically don't have space to enforce social distancing)

AlexaShutUp Mon 28-Sep-20 07:51:08

There's no social distancing being enforced in schools here though (most schools physically don't have space to enforce social distancing)

This.

notevenat20 Mon 28-Sep-20 08:01:34

I have an account either but opening a “private browsing” seemed to work for me. But just in case, here is some more

“ Many countries in Europe have dropped rules about wearing masks in schools, reasoning that it’s difficult for students to concentrate when they have them on all day. Public health authorities have spent more energy devising ways for children to study within relatively small cohorts, so that if quarantines are required, fewer people will be affected.”

“ Many countries in Europe have dropped rules about wearing masks in schools, reasoning that it’s difficult for students to concentrate when they have them on all day. Public health authorities have spent more energy devising ways for children to study within relatively small cohorts, so that if quarantines are required, fewer people will be affected.”

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notevenat20 Mon 28-Sep-20 08:02:13

I *don’t have an account.

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notevenat20 Mon 28-Sep-20 08:04:44

There's no social distancing being enforced in schools here though (most schools physically don't have space to enforce social distancing)

This bit looks relevant

“ The school environment, in our perception, is still quite a controlled environment,” he said. “We think it’s better to have schools open than to send kids home, have them meet on the street and give them more opportunities to spread the virus.”

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notevenat20 Mon 28-Sep-20 08:06:24

There's no social distancing being enforced in schools here though (most schools physically don't have space to enforce social distancing)

Don’t most secondary schools have a bubble system and restrictions on movement around the school?

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BowlerHatPowerHat Mon 28-Sep-20 08:19:30

Don’t most secondary schools have a bubble system and restrictions on movement around the school?
No - ours doesn't. Masks on buses and in corridors. Wiping tables down at start and end of class. No practical science. That's it. Everything else is the same. No bubbles.

Qwertywerty3 Mon 28-Sep-20 08:25:13

This assumes that kids are going straight home after school and not socialising. Regardless of how well managed the school is, you cannot police what happens once the school closes for the day. As far as I can see, the kids are hanging around in street corners after school, going to each others houses etc etc.

I suspect kids would be exposed to far fewer germs if they stayed at home. But I don’t think this is the correct thing to do for their education or mental health. It also isn’t the right thing for the parents who need to work.

thecatsatonthewall Mon 28-Sep-20 08:34:39

@Qwertywerty3

The article and the experience in Europe is the exact opposite of what you've just written.
Many european countries still held exams, the children of my friends in s/w france, who are at Uni and can come and go as they please, they have face to face learning too.

The thing that is missing from this governments stance is "consent" no western country can police a population - young or old if they don't want to be.

We no longer trust this Govt, that is the real issue.

herecomesthsun Mon 28-Sep-20 09:37:17

Average class size by country. The smaller the classes, the better the return to school seems to be going, infection wise.

Also, smaller classes work well for learning, a useful bonus.

notevenat20 Mon 28-Sep-20 10:52:53

Average class size by country. The smaller the classes, the better the return to school seems to be going, infection wise.

It's a nice chart but I am not sure of its relevance unless we think almost all the infection is happening in the classroom during lessons? Wouldn't it be more likely in break time when children climb on top of each other?

In any case, the evidence from Europe seems to be that schools just don't transmit the virus around internally a great deal.

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notevenat20 Mon 28-Sep-20 10:53:41

Average class size by country. The smaller the classes, the better the return to school seems to be going, infection wise.

Can you give the source of the chart? It's hard to tell which stage of school it is referring to.

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Nellodee Mon 28-Sep-20 11:00:06

One third of all outbreaks in France take place in educational settings- it is the highest contributor, more than all other workplaces put together.

notevenat20 Mon 28-Sep-20 11:02:45

One third of all outbreaks in France take place in educational settings- it is the highest contributor, more than all other workplaces put together.

The suggestion is these cases are not caught in the schools and once someone has a case in a school it normally does not mean everyone else in the year tests positive too.

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herecomesthsun Mon 28-Sep-20 11:11:58

@notevenat20

If class sizes are smaller then transmission could be expected to be less.

QueenBlueberries Mon 28-Sep-20 11:19:13

I think it's odd that the article quotes Belgium, which has one of the highest death rates per capita in Europe. We have one of the biggest class sizes in Europe. We have a system whereby a high number of pupils have to take public transport with the general population, not school busses.

AlexaShutUp Mon 28-Sep-20 11:25:00

Don’t most secondary schools have a bubble system and restrictions on movement around the school?

Yes, but the bubbles are huge, and by the time you have accounted for siblings in different bubbles, teachers crossing bubbles and mixed year group travel, they are pretty meaningless.

notevenat20 Mon 28-Sep-20 11:25:06

I think it's odd that the article quotes Belgium, which has one of the highest death rates per capita in Europe.

The Belgiums have a much more aggressive way of counting covid deaths. See www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52491210

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notevenat20 Mon 28-Sep-20 11:25:15

Belgians.. smile

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notevenat20 Mon 28-Sep-20 11:38:05

If class sizes are smaller then transmission could be expected to be less.

I am just not sure there is any evidence for that. First, as I suggested, surely the size of the year is most relevant. And second, it seems that there is just very little child to child transmission in schools. The cases for children that happen in schools seem to come from infections outside the schools.

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CokeEnStock Mon 28-Sep-20 11:44:09

My dd is at a Belgian secondary school. They have to wear masks in class and when moving round the school. They have to hand sanitize when entering the school and when entering and leaving a classroom. They have to have lunch with their class and if they order a sandwich it is delivered to their table. They can see friends in the playground etc but must stay 1.5 m away from each other or keep their mask on. Fingers crossed, though kids have been tested, no classes seem to have been sent home yet. Belgian classrooms tend to be old fashioned anyway. Groups of 2 desks all facing the front.

CokeEnStock Mon 28-Sep-20 11:44:39

Classes are generally a max of 25

notevenat20 Mon 28-Sep-20 11:57:56

@CokeEnStock

The article says

"Many countries in Europe have dropped rules about wearing masks in schools, reasoning that it’s difficult for students to concentrate when they have them on all day. "

Do you think that's a good idea?

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