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Never been so confused in my life.

(6 Posts)
OldQueen1969 Sun 13-Sep-20 13:41:26

Bear with me, I'm trying to get my head round where we're at with the virus and the rules.

My sources are multiple media outlets, MN threads, official sites, anecdata from friends and family who have been close to cases or potential cases etc, because I like to cross reference and try and extract some sort of clear picture and not blindly follow one "mindset"

My situation is I have this week re-opened my non-essential shop, with safeguards in place recommended by guidelines. No changing room, hand sanitiser available, only six customers at a time (hasn't been a problem, lucky if I get six customer over six hours) and masks to be worn aside from exemptions. Plenty of handwashing and surface sanitising.

I am confused because apparently from my "research":

The virus is both extremely contagious and dangerous and requires isolation until a test confirms or denies symptoms are the virus - but is also mild, most people will be "OK", the vulnerable won't (which is worrying of course and the definitions of vulnerable vary quite often).

Eligible symptoms vary between official sources - cough, temperature and sore throat suggest absolute eligibility for a test, but different groups can have different symptoms which may or may not be related. Symptoms are the same as many viruses such as colds or "ordinary" flu, so you should be responsible and get a test, but only if you're sure it's necessary. If you consult with 119 or other checking facilities they may have different views on that.

If you have symptoms you should isolate and arrange a test - if it is positive contacts will be notified by track and trace - but it isn't clear how long one is infectious so your household should also isolate but for a different amount of time.

If you can get a test, which has become incredibly hard for many people just as numbers are rising, which is apparently because more tests are being done and picking it up more, but also because people are actually getting it because of the easing of lockdown, return to work and places of education, it may take several days for a result, requiring you to act as if it is the virus just in case, causing disruption to work and education.

Transmission is mainly in private dwellings, hence the new 6 rule, and doing things like going to the pub, school or any place with more than 6 people is low risk because of social distancing rules and masks even where it has been shown that it is difficult to enforce these measures and bubbles can be up to 300 in a school setting but that's different.

Asymptomatic carriers will never know but might be dangerous to others, people may be able to get the virus more than once, herd immunity may occur slowly and our focus should be on not overwhelming the health service by letting it develop until a vaccine is approved, which may or may not be soon and may or may not be mandatory, and may or may not be administered by anyone who can be trained - it's not rocket science so pretty much anyone can do it and the army is a possible source for manpower.

Testing is a minefield - we're identifying more cases because of lots more testing but there are potentially lots of false positives, but now it's getting really hard to get tests even if symptomatic but it's ok because of Moonshot. And private tests are always an option......

Although a second wave has been predicted it may or may not be happening now, and official preparations over the last six months have not been great because we're not sure if it is a second wave or not.

Local lockdowns may be the answer, and a second lockdown can't happen because economy, but if we don't follow new rules to the letter it might.

If you are worried by it all you lack resilience and just need to do as we're being told, it's not WW2 and it's much worse for pretty much everybody else, we should be grateful for our free NHS provision despite other illnesses and conditions being poorly managed and in some cases sidelined altogether. Poor mental health is no excuse for not doing your bit, and making the best of circumstances even if they are patently shit is ones patriotic duty.

If you aren't worried enough you are a cold hearted psychopath actively murdering anyone vulnerable really, and if you are trying to juggle jobs, childcare, feeding your family and paying bills despite incomes reduced and redundancies and finding it hard you're just not trying hard enough.

It's the fault of the young for going out, but staying in is also bad because economy and mental health.

Children are and are not at risk, and are as able to spread it as anyone else but not so much because they're short and don't breathe on teachers.

The virus is mainly mild but also can cause long term consequences and kill some people.

One should be aware of all new information, rules and guidance, which can change very fast at all times in order to behave responsibly, but one should step away from it all to avoid unnecessary anxiety, and enjoy a hobby instead.

Ultimately it's simple to follow the rules, any confusion is your own fault, the government can't be blamed because it's a new thing and they've never done this before and they're doing their best, and implementing the 6 rule from Monday while announcing it four days prior to a nice weekend was perfectly reasonable because sensible people won't try and see all the people they have only just been allowed to see after lockdown possibly until Christmas unless we're very, very good, and certainly not in pubs - although if the hospitality sector has a bumper weekend it will lessen the impact if lockdowns happen because they'll have made enough to pay staff and overheads for a while and lessen the impact on the public purse.

So have I got this right?

Mainly writing this to clarify my thoughts and am not sure if it has helped at all.

Flame away if you desire....... everyone is probably right in some regard.

OP’s posts: |
Rinoachicken Sun 13-Sep-20 13:45:35

Spot on - how depressing

Babyroobs Sun 13-Sep-20 13:51:08

OldQueen1969

Bear with me, I'm trying to get my head round where we're at with the virus and the rules.

My sources are multiple media outlets, MN threads, official sites, anecdata from friends and family who have been close to cases or potential cases etc, because I like to cross reference and try and extract some sort of clear picture and not blindly follow one "mindset"

My situation is I have this week re-opened my non-essential shop, with safeguards in place recommended by guidelines. No changing room, hand sanitiser available, only six customers at a time (hasn't been a problem, lucky if I get six customer over six hours) and masks to be worn aside from exemptions. Plenty of handwashing and surface sanitising.

I am confused because apparently from my "research":

The virus is both extremely contagious and dangerous and requires isolation until a test confirms or denies symptoms are the virus - but is also mild, most people will be "OK", the vulnerable won't (which is worrying of course and the definitions of vulnerable vary quite often).

Eligible symptoms vary between official sources - cough, temperature and sore throat suggest absolute eligibility for a test, but different groups can have different symptoms which may or may not be related. Symptoms are the same as many viruses such as colds or "ordinary" flu, so you should be responsible and get a test, but only if you're sure it's necessary. If you consult with 119 or other checking facilities they may have different views on that.

If you have symptoms you should isolate and arrange a test - if it is positive contacts will be notified by track and trace - but it isn't clear how long one is infectious so your household should also isolate but for a different amount of time.

If you can get a test, which has become incredibly hard for many people just as numbers are rising, which is apparently because more tests are being done and picking it up more, but also because people are actually getting it because of the easing of lockdown, return to work and places of education, it may take several days for a result, requiring you to act as if it is the virus just in case, causing disruption to work and education.

Transmission is mainly in private dwellings, hence the new 6 rule, and doing things like going to the pub, school or any place with more than 6 people is low risk because of social distancing rules and masks even where it has been shown that it is difficult to enforce these measures and bubbles can be up to 300 in a school setting but that's different.

Asymptomatic carriers will never know but might be dangerous to others, people may be able to get the virus more than once, herd immunity may occur slowly and our focus should be on not overwhelming the health service by letting it develop until a vaccine is approved, which may or may not be soon and may or may not be mandatory, and may or may not be administered by anyone who can be trained - it's not rocket science so pretty much anyone can do it and the army is a possible source for manpower.

Testing is a minefield - we're identifying more cases because of lots more testing but there are potentially lots of false positives, but now it's getting really hard to get tests even if symptomatic but it's ok because of Moonshot. And private tests are always an option......

Although a second wave has been predicted it may or may not be happening now, and official preparations over the last six months have not been great because we're not sure if it is a second wave or not.

Local lockdowns may be the answer, and a second lockdown can't happen because economy, but if we don't follow new rules to the letter it might.

If you are worried by it all you lack resilience and just need to do as we're being told, it's not WW2 and it's much worse for pretty much everybody else, we should be grateful for our free NHS provision despite other illnesses and conditions being poorly managed and in some cases sidelined altogether. Poor mental health is no excuse for not doing your bit, and making the best of circumstances even if they are patently shit is ones patriotic duty.

If you aren't worried enough you are a cold hearted psychopath actively murdering anyone vulnerable really, and if you are trying to juggle jobs, childcare, feeding your family and paying bills despite incomes reduced and redundancies and finding it hard you're just not trying hard enough.

It's the fault of the young for going out, but staying in is also bad because economy and mental health.

Children are and are not at risk, and are as able to spread it as anyone else but not so much because they're short and don't breathe on teachers.

The virus is mainly mild but also can cause long term consequences and kill some people.

One should be aware of all new information, rules and guidance, which can change very fast at all times in order to behave responsibly, but one should step away from it all to avoid unnecessary anxiety, and enjoy a hobby instead.

Ultimately it's simple to follow the rules, any confusion is your own fault, the government can't be blamed because it's a new thing and they've never done this before and they're doing their best, and implementing the 6 rule from Monday while announcing it four days prior to a nice weekend was perfectly reasonable because sensible people won't try and see all the people they have only just been allowed to see after lockdown possibly until Christmas unless we're very, very good, and certainly not in pubs - although if the hospitality sector has a bumper weekend it will lessen the impact if lockdowns happen because they'll have made enough to pay staff and overheads for a while and lessen the impact on the public purse.

So have I got this right?

Mainly writing this to clarify my thoughts and am not sure if it has helped at all.

Flame away if you desire....... everyone is probably right in some regard.

Same here. I have given up with it all. I keep myself and my family at as low a risk as possible now. We don't have friends round unless just one person and we sit in the garden. I evaluate how high risk someone else is based on my knowledge of their lifestyle. I only go out to a cafe or restaurant if I can sit outside. I encourage my kids to follow the rules but I can't enforce strictly that they do. Some of Ds2's social activities are falling outside of the rules I suspect and I tell him so but at the end of the day he's an adult. My dh is high risk so we have to be so careful.

OldQueen1969 Sun 13-Sep-20 14:08:40

Glad that I'm not alone and flowers to you both, thanks for replying.

I've always tried to be a greater good community minded person but right now I am also in the "doing the best I can for me and mine" camp and hoping it has a knock on effect......

DP is very frustrated because almost everything he wants to do, even if I'm in agreement, we have a discussion where I go "Ah yes, great, now the rules say......" ........he gets it, he's very fastidious due to his job, but also so frustrated that our lives have become so very narrow.

Now that we're both back at work, we've stopped going to local pubs we used to be regulars at pre-lockdown as there have been confirmed cases and closures for deep cleans. No big deal in some ways, but it's sad - we can't risk having to isolate and miss work. Nor do we want to spread it about. But some of the landlords are friends and we want to help support them - frugally as we don't have much disposable income - but we're not spending it anywhere else and should probably be saving but - gaaaah....... off it goes again, the virus carousel of contradiction and inconsistency.

OP’s posts: |
OldQueen1969 Sun 13-Sep-20 16:00:22

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/13/manchester-lockdown-second-wave

Looks like we're not alone at all if we're confused........

OP’s posts: |
WitsEnding Sun 13-Sep-20 16:24:59

I’d suggest you just follow the official gov.uk advice and ignore forums and anecdotes. Trying to synthesise all possible sources of information into a coherent whole is always going to cause problems and huge mental overload. IMHO it is this which is causing the mental stress which is obvious everywhere.

If you think you need a test, ask for one. They’ll tell you if you can’t have one.

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