Doesn't it all come down to 2 choices ?

[disorganisedsecretsquirrel]

A gazillion (and 1) threads about Covid.. but in essence does it not boil down to 2 simple choices.

1. Live a completely normal life, with kids in school /at Uni, people socialising exactly how they wish but knowing that this choice WILL kill a higher percentage of people dead before they otherwise would be..

OR

1. We stop . Just Hunker Down. To the bare minimum through winter. Until the spread is decreased to negligible levels. With the economy / mental health and education taking the hit. For six months. ? But fewer deaths.

As far as I can see. Those are the stark choices.

Which would you do ?

[Hardbackwriter]

I don't think they are the two choices at all - hardly any countries are doing either of those. Most are trying to find a middle ground, with varying levels of success. Pretending coronavirus doesn't exist and accepting the deaths isn't a viable option but nor is 'stopping'. Unless you're using a very loose definition of the 'minimum' that would still go ahead and then we're still left with 1000 choices about what is and isn't included in that minimum.

[disorganisedsecretsquirrel]

I don't think there is a 'middle ground' for a virus that's fatal for some.

It's only a 'middle ground' if you are pretty sure to sail through it .

Just look on the threads for people who have had it, survived but are still enduring months of terribly debilitating health.

It boils down to social responsibility.

Are you happy for the potential for you or your child to give it to an elderly or immunosuppressed neighbour?

[HeyMacarona]

If we did 2. where’s the guarantee that would be the solution? As soon as we started moving again so could the virus.

[mintpeonies]

That is wildly naive.

Yes, the leisure industries of gymns, takeaway coffees, Pret sandwiches, random holidays, hotels are going to be mostly wiped out by this virus.

The arts will survive, government and private benefactors need to help.

But it was always the rule that any job couldn’t be done from home could go in to work. And always the rule that key workers’ children (including teachers themselves) could go into schools.

Plus England’s industries are mostly tertiary and those in insurance, law, banking, accountancy, computing, architecture, engineering etc etc worked hard and worked well WFH.

[Hardbackwriter]

Oh sorry, I thought you were asking a genuine question, I wouldn't have replied if I knew you were just going to preach about how opening anything is murder.

As I said, no country is doing what you advocate - why do you think that is?

[PinkPiranha11]

Option 1. Without a doubt. All the elderly people I know have said the same.

[tearinyourhand]

It boils down to social responsibility.

Are you happy for the potential for you or your child to give it to an elderly or immunosuppressed neighbour?

You could just as easily say 'are you happy to lock everyone down for months and sacrifice those who are suicidal or whose physical health will deteriorate? To condemn hundreds of thousands of children to poverty, and the poor outcomes that will lead to, because their parents lose their jobs'

It's nowhere near as black and white as you suggest

[Sunshinegirl82]

If your only consideration is "how do we prevent deaths caused by Covid" then yes, a long term lockdown is probably the answer.

If you are seeking minimise harm from all causes them a long term lockdown is almost certainly not the answer.

[Jrobhatch29]

So obviously the OP thinks 2 is the only option....

[Oly4]

Option 2 for me, it’s only a year and there will be a vaccine by end of next year. I’m happy to bunker down to avoid mass death

[ReeseWitherfork]

Middle ground, obviously. We’ve found an appropriate middle ground from mid March and will continue to do so.

You’re either a troll or very foolish.

[Quartz2208]

Do you get what would actually happen if we did 2. The consequences of it. Putting aside the fact that even if we did this virus is not going to be eliminated or eradicated anytime soon and we would go through six months to get to exactly the same point as we are now.


No they aren't the choices - they are the two sides of the scales that we need to balance out

I have a social responsibility yes to make sure that our children get an education, that peoples livelihoods are maintained and the economy survives balanced out against making sure that as much as possible deaths and cases are kept down

[ReeseWitherfork]

It boils down to social responsibility.

Are you happy for the potential for you or your child to give it to an elderly or immunosuppressed neighbour?

You could just as easily say 'are you happy to lock everyone down for months and sacrifice those who are suicidal or whose physical health will deteriorate? To condemn hundreds of thousands of children to poverty, and the poor outcomes that will lead to, because their parents lose their jobs'

It's nowhere near as black and white as you suggest

^ this

[Wavescrashingonthebeach]

It boils down to social responsibility.

Are you happy for the potential for you or your child to give it to an elderly or immunosuppressed neighbour?

Are you happy that driving your car creates noxious poisonous gases that kill? That the plastic released into the ocean is killing? Do you buy everything free range, organic and fair trade? How do you know the items you own arent as a result of slave labour? What about the 5 year old sewing your Primark top or being sent down the mines for mica?

Etc etc etc.

Dont start blackmailing people with the oh what if you killed a child business. Im pretty sure most people with Covid wont be going round spreading it like wildfire.

Examine your own life and if everything you do in it is utterly perfect and causes no harm whatsoever to the environment thus to other people then wow i think Jesus wants his halo back.

What's that phrase.... oh yeah... "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

[HeresMe]

Plus England’s industries are mostly tertiary and those in insurance, law, banking, accountancy, computing, architecture, engineering etc etc worked hard and worked well WFH.

I'm not having a go at you who posted this. But this is what it is , Well as long as the middle class are ok.


Never mind anyone else.

[Iminaglasscaseofemotion]

Your making yourself look very naive.

[WhiteChocTwix]

Absolutely not no. We choose to live pretty much a normal life with appropriate mitigations in place. My Dad is in a care home and not been allowed out of his compound since March. I still get to travel, go to work, go out, but have to cover my face, clean my hands and stay away from strangers most of whom annoy me anyway some ppl need to get a grip and realise we're in unprecedented times.

[Wavescrashingonthebeach]

But fewer deaths.

Are you for real? Have you looked at the suicide rates lately?

What about the people putting off seeking medical attention for potentially life threatening illnesses???

[frozendaisy]

Far too complex an issue to boil down to two choices.

[SheepandCow]

We could have relative normality by Christmas if we wanted to use our island advantage, like NZ and Aus did. One to two months lockdown now, then open up but borders closed for up to a year (obviously excepting freight and emergency travel, which could have proper quarantine). Unfortunately I don't think enough of the public or government have the sense or foresight.

How do you expect a normal life with an infectious disease spreading unchecked? Widespread mental health issues due to bereavement and fear, loads of people off sick for months and facing permanent disability from Long Covid?

[frozendaisy]

We could have a referendum because the last one went so well bringing the country together!

Illness v poverty

Death v freedom

Pubs v jigsaws

Ravers v hermits

See how they goes.......

[PremierInn]

Very obviously those are not the only two choices

This is known as a false dichotomy

My kids do it a lot
"If you don't let me do whatever I want, you can't love me"
It's the reasoning of the average five year old
Try harder

[movingonup20]

There is a third way, we support those at significantly increased vulnerability to stay at home, possibly paying for separate accommodation if they are for instance in a multigenerational household. The mortality rate is very low for most people

[MarshaBradyo]

There is a middle ground. The one we are following

[HeyMacarona]

There is a third way, we support those at significantly increased vulnerability to stay at home

This