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Is it inevitable that schools will see large outbreaks like meat processing plants have?

(64 Posts)
Reastie Sun 23-Aug-20 08:26:39

Just that really. Logically in the situ and with current measures I can’t see how there won’t be large outbreaks in schools, especially in large secondary schools.

OP’s posts: |
LeGrandBleu Sun 23-Aug-20 08:37:43

No, because it has to do with freezing temperature and physical labor that makes you breath very hard, and people work very close one to the other, almost touching each other, and mask wearing is difficult so many wear it under their nose or touch it constantly.

There will be outbreaks in schools but you can't compare it to a meat processing plant.

ChallyCreaks Sun 23-Aug-20 08:40:25

I agree. Lots of schools are old buildings which have not been maintained properly. My daughters have reported that windows barely open in most rooms and the classrooms are not big enough for 30 teenagers. Taps don't work properly in some bathrooms so they can't wash their hands and I doubt all of these issues have been rectified since lockdown. However, I will be sending mine in and fully expect them to do blended learning through the winter.

BillywilliamV Sun 23-Aug-20 08:41:44

Dont send your kids if you are that worried, deregister them and lock them up!
Let the rest of us reimpose some structure on our DC and start to rebuild their lives please!

InsaneInTheViralMembrane Sun 23-Aug-20 08:43:26

Depends really. Do most schools eviscerate chickens in a factory line and inhale biological fluids?

morosetinkler Sun 23-Aug-20 08:45:33

One of my dc has most lessons upstairs with restricted windows and won't use the school toilets so hand washing is going to be very limited, I'm not eager for the new term to start.

middleager Sun 23-Aug-20 08:55:46

I work in a secondary school and my children attend secondary schools in 'high risk' areas. In March there were a number of sicknesses and it was a little chaotic. One of mine had a temp, so we were all off for those last few days!

I want mine to go back desperately as they are year 10. I'm fully prepared for blended learning, but..

I'm tired of speculation. Who knows?
We speculated about Mother's Day, VE Day, crowded beaches, pubs.

We just don't know what winter will be like, what one area/school is like in comparison to another. My relatives live in a 'low risk' area, not a built up inner city Victorian building like mine with 1500 crammed in.

itsgettingweird Sun 23-Aug-20 08:56:09

BillywilliamV

Dont send your kids if you are that worried, deregister them and lock them up!
Let the rest of us reimpose some structure on our DC and start to rebuild their lives please!


Over reaction 🤣

Think this say more about you than the OP!

Yanbu. We have the science to see what types of environments are higher risk than others. It's very reasonable to assume in either cold classrooms with windows open for ventilation or non ventilated rooms and teens being teens this will be a risk. Some of the conditions replicate and most won't even have masks (although tide seems to be changing on this).

I don't think despite the conditions seeming to replicate those which have quick spread that children are as high risk. It's more school staff who are likely to come off worse illness wise but that will of course affect education because pupils need the teachers!

There is hope though that with less national travel (holidays ending, not beach weather, people not visiting long distance attractions as working/school) in areas where there is current low transmission if it can be kept low the chances of someone taking covid to the setting are lower. But we also know it does often only take 1 person to exponential growth in some places.

My son starts college and their plans for learning and plan B are very secure so I'm lucky to have that reassurance whatever happens his learning won't be too disrupted.

I just wish the government had provided a national plan and funding so all students have that access and guarantee.

middleager Sun 23-Aug-20 08:57:16

I just wish the government had provided a national plan and funding so all students have that access and guarantee.

Yy

premiumshoes Sun 23-Aug-20 08:57:54

Think this say more about you than the OP!

What does this even mean?

Of course that post says more about the poster than it does about OP. It wasn't OP's opinion, it was the posters confused

MysweetAudrina Sun 23-Aug-20 08:59:52

Well schools in Germany have been open for 2 weeks and already 41 have reported cases, same with Georgia, USA so yes it is likely and probable.

ChaChaCha2012 Sun 23-Aug-20 09:00:55

I don't think anyone is saying that schools shouldn't go back, but that they want them to go back safely. The government has had months to make a plan, and they've done bugger all. Also the concern is not about children becoming mildly unwell, but the impact that will have on older people and others who are vulnerable.

ChaChaCha2012 Sun 23-Aug-20 09:02:42

If the government could find £500 million to get people to eat out, then they could have provided far more to support schools and local authorities in providing safer school environments.

SomewhereEast Sun 23-Aug-20 09:02:55

Apparently food processing is especially high risk because food processing plants have to be kept at exactly the kind of temperature the virus thrives at. There've been issues with meat processing particularly all over Europe. Secondary schools would be much more comparable - in so far as they're comparable at all - to other types of largescale manufacturing. Primary schools might in some ways be more comparable with nurseries, which have been open for months without catastrope (although you'd never guess this from MN???)

Sidewinder30 Sun 23-Aug-20 09:07:51

Schools will obviously be a source of community spread of Covid. (And have been in a number of places where they have opened.) That's why they were closed in the first place.

But plenty of people will be aggressive and angry if this is pointed out because saying this makes you part of the conspiracy to destroy the education of a generation of children.

I really want my dc - and everyone else's - to go back to school. I also want them and the people they live with and around to be healthy. I fear these 2 things are incompatible and I don't really know what to do for best. I think lots of parents feel the same.

premiumshoes Sun 23-Aug-20 09:21:46

Our children are back and early indications are that the spread through high schools is going to be unstoppable. They are not social distancing, not wearing masks so when they are at the shops in their groups at lunch they are not wearing masks, because 'fuck masks'. Our high school is still having them change class every period too.

My eldest has proclaimed he won't be going back after the first week 🙄

LynetteScavo Sun 23-Aug-20 09:24:30

No, because it has to do with freezing temperature and physical labor that makes you breath very hard

Thank you for this! I did wonder why there were outbreaks in meat factories. (I thought it might be a sign we should be going vegetarian hmm)

I don't think there will be many outbreaks in schools and if there are it'll be the staff who are off ill not the students. I also think outbreaks will happen in winter, not the first week back.

sunseekin Sun 23-Aug-20 09:26:30

BillywilliamV

Dont send your kids if you are that worried, deregister them and lock them up!
Let the rest of us reimpose some structure on our DC and start to rebuild their lives please!

What? Is nobody allowed to ask questions in this country anymore???

I don’t think it will be as bad as cold factories initially, but I do think it will worsen with the weather.

I also think what happens will depend on how many asymptomatic cases there are in the classrooms which is something that it (feels like) we have little measure of. Or maybe we do....

The whole thing feels like some sort of fingers crossed experiment tbh. It’s something I feel every time I bake a cake tbh but isn’t really appropriate when you’re handling a pandemic.

MillieEpple Sun 23-Aug-20 09:38:04

I actually think schools will work really hard to minimise risks. It wont be perfect as 35 children in a small room with windows that dont open is impossible to stop spread.

Reastie Sun 23-Aug-20 09:41:06

* No, because it has to do with freezing temperature and physical labor that makes you breath very hard*

Thank you, I had wondered why As it seems to be a particular issue across the board internationally.

I just wish the government had provided a national plan and funding so all students have that access and guarantee.

Think everyone agrees with this.

OP’s posts: |
Bol87 Sun 23-Aug-20 09:49:37

Has anyone looked at nurseries? They aren’t so different to schools? My daughters been back in two different nurseries since June & neither have had an outbreak. Nor have any of my friends multiple different nurseries across the area I live in. We are in a local lockdown as well, cases are higher here.

It’s gona happen but I’m not sure it’s going to be as catastrophic as some proclaim? My daughters first nursery was poorly ventilated, they had to break up the room into two to support bubbles and she ended up in the end with one window & very cramped. And in nurseries, kids are mixing with children who attend on different days as not many are full time. My daughter is essentially exposed to kids who attend every day of the week via other children who attend on some of the same days she does. In July, they scrapped the limited on numbers in bubbles for EY & since then, we’ve moved her to a nursery closer to home & she’s been with around 25 children a day. Again, exposed to way more as children attend across the week. There’s no distancing. She’s kindly brought home two colds which were not Corona.

I duno, are schools much different? Older children are a bit less grubby than toddlers as well!

People proclaiming 45 schools shut in Germany after opening, we’ll sure but out of how many hundreds of thousands of schools across the country?! And in theory, entire schools don’t have to close. Just the bubble. But I suppose this may be high school based where bubbles don’t exist! :-/

It’s going to be a disruptive year. It’s inevitable. But we just have to see how it goes I suppose. If only we had a competent government with plans for how learning can continue during a school outbreak & some form of support for parents who can’t work while isolating .. but alas. Y’all listened to the Daily Mail & voted for BoJo 👏🏼👏🏼

WhyAreWeHardOfThinking Sun 23-Aug-20 09:59:04

The low temperature is actually what I'm worried about in the coming months. Our windows don't open but they are shocking; you can get your hand between the frame and the wall in places (as the kids discovered) so it is freezing in winter; we often come in to find frost on the inside and the heating just cannot cope and every year we have a day or so off for it to be fixed. There isn't a lab in my department that doesn't have kids in coats in winter because it is so cold. It rains in and even snow3d in a few years ago. Give us a windy day and christ, I'm making my 6th formers tea and coffee to keep warm. Can't do that now as the staff room and kitchen facilities are our of bounds.

There are many schools even in my county in this position; winter is going to be very disrupted for us, and we are already in a local lockdown.

Nicedayforawedding Sun 23-Aug-20 10:04:26

Judging by my friend’s experience of nursery I would say the op is raising a valid point. My friend has a great nursery and her son usually attends four days a week. Unfortunately they had an outbreak a few weeks ago and another one last week so he’s barely been in to nursery due to closures. I think it will be the same in schools. As long as we are prepared for this it’s ok, I don’t This we should expect it to be normal.

Enoughnowstop Sun 23-Aug-20 10:08:32

Depends really. Do most schools eviscerate chickens in a factory line and inhale biological fluids?

No chickens but by Christ, the inhaling biological fluids is stop on.

itsgettingweird Sun 23-Aug-20 10:14:57

* I just wish the government had provided a national plan and funding so all students have that access and guarantee.

Think everyone agrees with this.*

Sadly they don't.

If seems if you question safety or want a very sensible discussion about other outbreaks and risks in schools and whether there's similarities in the settings etc you get replies that show a severe lack of critical thinking such as

'Well lock your children away then and let the rest of us get on with it'.

I can only assume these are posters who are lucky enough to have the funds and ability to provide a decent standard of HE should it be required.

Because we don't know what will happen.

But we do know if there are absences and illness or closure of bubbles/schools etc then those in deprivation will be most profoundly affected.

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