The great covid divide!

[notth]

Is it just me and my friends and family or is there seemingly a fence you're on one side of?

Half the people in my life (all ages and health) are over the whole thing - no fear, just want to take the risk and get on with life and the other half are terrified of doing activities we are allowed to do and don't a remotely normal life until 'there's a vaccine'.

I was really anxious at first but as time goes on I am leaning towards the latter (although still following rules but more due to guilt if I didn't rather than fear)

[BigglesLiesAgain]

I'm part of a different divide. Lockdown deaths are currently two for every three COVID deaths.
We had a cure for lockdown deaths - it was called 'no mandatory lockdown'.
I'm not OK with anyone who supported what I consider the most barbaric policy I've ever known of.

[notth]

@BigglesLiesAgain for what it's worth, I did read that and hope it's evidence enough to avoid a future lockdown.

[jasjas1973]

From what i can see, most people are not SD, esp after 2 or 3 drinks but also in shops.
So it becomes harder to SD, so i've stopped... just go with the crowd! it doesn't matter what i do, someone will jump into that 2m gap.

Lets hope that Covid is also playing this game!

[SengaStrawberry]

Most people I know are still sticking to the rules but going out etc within that. People who have been shielding are understandably cautious. There are clearly some arses not bothering at all with any measures as evidenced by the pics from packed pubs etc but it’s only on MN I come across the worried well still refusing to go out, wiping down shopping, refusing to send kids back to school etc.

[LemonTT]

No, everyone I know takes a fairly pragmatic view of things. We need to be cautious, follow scientific advice on how to avoid infection but get on with life, work and love.

If you are adamant about anything to do with the current situation then you are a fool, either way.

[quiet01]

I was always relaxed and still am, but think I'm still in a small minority (max 20% of people feel like me). 40% are very scared & 40% are merely enduring. Almost everyone wants to do the 'right thing'.

[BuffaloCauliflower]

@BigglesLiesAgain I’m with you, but I’ve not seen the data that puts lockdown deaths than high already. Have you got a link to anything?

[SJK34]

I think that there is probably more of a spectrum than a divide.

[CoffeeandCroissant]

@BuffaloCauliflower
Possibly a reference to this Telegraph article:

"Another grossly misleading headline from the print edition of @telegraph. No mention that the same report estimates 1.5m deaths would have occurred had lockdown not occurred, nor that the 16k deaths were due to health system stresses as opposed to the imposition of restrictions.
mobile.twitter.com/john_actuary/status/1292046135243268096

[BigglesLiesAgain]

The 1.5 million is an outrageous guess - Sweden and other places which didn't lock down don't support this kind of number per million.
The 16K deaths were partly due to the health system stresses BECAUSE of COVID being prioritised above all other things.

That 16K is just a drop in the ocean of what's to come, too - with all the looming cancer deaths, excess suicides due to poverty and despair, etc.

[BigglesLiesAgain]

I'm sure that lockdown supporters will keep telling yourselves whatever you need to to make yourselves feel better though.

But remember - we had a cure for lockdown deaths.

[Waxonwaxoff0]

I'm relaxed about it all. That doesn't mean I'm refusing to wear a mask or purposefully putting others at risk but I'm doing everything I'm allowed to do with no fear - cinema, pub, eating out, visiting friends.

I think the whole thing has been over hyped by the media and put the fear into people. I'm quite pragmatic about death though, if Covid is what's going to get me then it's going to get me.

[CoffeeandCroissant]

But you are just cherry picking the parts of the report that you agree with and claiming they are true and then claiming that the parts that you don't like are false.

This is from the most recent Vivid Actuaries Response Group bulletin, (pdf) which contains a link to the full report (also pdf).

"SAGE: Direct and Indirect Impacts of COVID-19 on Excess Mortality and Morbidity (link)
The government today published an updated review presented to SAGE on the possible mortality and morbidity impacts of the pandemic in light of the government's response. link
In summary it suggests that within the first year there could be around 82,000 excess deaths directly from COVID, together with a further 65,000 deaths as a result of the reduction in health and social care services as they responded to the need to prioritise COVID cases and protect other patients and staff.

There has been much debate as to the impact there will be on mortality from the economic consequences of lockdown and the various restrictions imposed on society, together with any wider social impacts. These are estimated over the long term to amount to 29,000, after adjusting for the
positive impacts of social distancing measures (eg reduced road accidents).
The paper highlights that these figures should be assessed against the alternative of 'lockdown", which is that an unmitigated pandemic could have resulted in up to 1.5m deaths in the UK, and thus
comes to the clear conclusion that whilst the restrictions put in place will have adverse consequences for mortality and health, they are dwarfed by the impact were they not to have been put in place."
www.covid-arg.com/bulletins

[LizzieBlackwell]

Most people I know are sticking to the rules but just want to get on with life. The only person I know that is being very careful is my granny who is 88 and has had three bouts of pneumonia last year. The only people I see that are rubbing rosary beads and thinking we’re all about to die are on line, well MN really.

[Kaiserin]

I'm on neither side.

Realistically, life will not go back to "normal" for a very long time, whether I want it or not.
No amount of wishing the virus away and "getting on with it", will change anything to government policy. Local lockdowns will happen, social distancing is here to stay. People who think otherwise are deluding themselves.
I'm not happy about it all, but I'm not fearful. I'm ready.

Living in fear isn't the answer, but neither is wishful thinking.
I'm a realist, and I will simply adapt, and make the most of unfortunate circumstances.
No other approach makes sense to me.

[HairyToity]

We're living cautiously - if this is a thing. Met friends for picnic and walk, had takeaways, a family BBQ, popped into local shop for Sunday paper (rather than 100% online). Considering eating outside in a beer garden.

I don't think there is a right or wrong. My DH has Type 1 diabetes so we are probably being more cautious than most, as don't want to mess up and catch the virus.

I'm pleased we are all having to wear masks now.

[Uhoh2020]

There's some who have completely conflicting views on the whole thing.... a friend of mine thinks the whole thing is a hoax, under no circumstances will get a vaccine yet he's just spent 4 months strict shielding 🤷‍♀️

[annabel85]

Half the people in my life (all ages and health) are over the whole thing - no fear, just want to take the risk and get on with life and the other half are terrified of doing activities we are allowed to do and don't a remotely normal life until 'there's a vaccine'.

Most people in my life are still being very cautious, you could say over cautious. Certainly family are and close friends who i'd normally socialise with, only one has being pushing to meet up.

Psychologically I wrote 2020 off months ago, so i've got no plans to do anything, whereas I think a lot of people are desperate to salvage something of their summer, whereas many don't really give a fuck and just want to live their life and damn the consequences.

Ultimately, wouldn't we all just like to do what we want, but if we all had that attitude then there'd be more and more lockdowns. In a sense it's the cautious people who by being sensible are allowing others to do what they like.

"Just waiting for a vaccine" isn't a long term strategy though. I'm not going to write off 2021 as well as 2020.

[ChubbyPigeon]

@BigglesLiesAgain

We didng have a cure for 'lockdown deaths'. You are spouting total bs

If we hadnt locked down you have no idea how many people would have died. You have no idea how the NHS would have coped, the NHS made the decision to stop routine health services seperate to the lockdown because hospitals were overwhelmed. Do you think cancer ops can go ahead if ITU is full of covid patients? Cancer ops get cancelled every january because theres no beds. Not to mention the risk of bringing a vunerable, immunocompromised patient into an overwhelmed hospital, full of patients with a deadly disease.

Youh ave no idea how peoples mental health would have coped had we not locked down, do you think we would have just carried on as normal with a pandemic raging around us? No. Obviously plenty of people would have isolated regardless of the law, do you think people would have carried on eating out, going to pubs etc? I doubt it. The week pre lockdown I was terrified, I am okay now and erring on the side of living my life but just image that fear escalating exponentially as it was.

[Northernsoulgirl45]

Most people I know have a mid ground. Basically getting on with their lives but being sensible. A few are more cautious as they have come out of shielding but generally no extremes here.

[ChubbyPigeon]

I am actually suprised how cautious people I know are being. I am early 20s and people keep talking about how young people are most affected

Yet all my friends are being indredibly cautious, we are all low risk. I am being careful with mask wearing/hand washing but am embracing the lifting of the rules. Most of my friends are still rarely leaving the house etc. It has suprised me as I am not feeling scared for myself anymore, and havent for a long time

[Yetiyoga]

Op there may not be a vaccine for years, i think it is unhealthy living life overcautiously waiting for a vaccine. So long as you're doing things carefully, it is OK to get back to a bit of normality.

[EmilyDickinson]

The people I know fall into three groups:

• those who are being more cautious than the government requires. I’d count myself in this group. I’d rather avoid catching the virus if at all possible so I’ll get a takeaway rather than eating in a restaurant, meet a friend for a walk rather than in a cafe, download a film rather than going to the cinema etc.
  

• those who follow the rules but have taken advantage of the new freedoms. They’ve had restaurant meals, gone to the gym, had family round for a meal indoors.
  

• those who have gone beyond what’s allowed. More than two households meeting indoors, big groups out of doors, no social distancing etc.
  

As an earlier poster says I think the more cautious people are probably needed to balance out the ones breaking the rules. In fact I read somewhere that they assume about 20% of people will break them so rely on the rest of us to be reasonably sensible when they calculate the risk of easing restrictions.

[herecomesthsun]

• we were shielding but have no stopped
• haven't been to a supermarket since March as get weekly delivery and don't need anything else so far
• we do go for walks and cycles and have had brunch outside and ice creams out

so we've been very careful but never washed our shopping, as it seemed unnecessary

as regards schools, we are biding our time. It would be great for kids to go back but sad if this causes an upsurge in infections - and not good for us. It will be interesting to hear the latest plans tomorrow.

[Flaxmeadow]

I tried to follow the rules as best I could but slackened off a bit recently, but trying again. I'm in a local lockdown area

I think the daily briefings in England ended too soon. They should have moved to briefings every other day maybe or 3 days on week days.

Some restrictions were lifted in June but we are still supposed to be in a lockdown, even if it is lighter, but a lot of people think it's over. It's too easy to forget about the current recommendations and rules but they are still in place