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School re-opening may not go well.

(392 Posts)
jomartin281271 Wed 05-Aug-20 23:18:44

Here's an article from the New York Times documenting what happened when the Israeli government decided to re-open their schools. They thought they had beaten the virus (which this country certainly hasn't) and within days it was spreading again like wildfire. One section of the article is particularly interesting. It reads:

'Public health experts worldwide have coalesced around a set of guidelines for reopening schools.

A major recommendation is to create groups of 10 to 15 students who stay together in classrooms, at recess and lunchtime, with teachers assigned to only one group. Each group has minimal contact with other groups, limiting any spread of infection. And if a case of Covid-19 emerges, one group can be quarantined at home while others can continue at school.

Other key recommendations include staggering schedules or teaching older students online, keeping desks several feet apart, sanitizing classrooms more frequently, providing ventilation and opening windows if possible, and requiring masks for staff and students old enough to wear them properly.'

Our government are going to be cramming the kids into the same old classrooms, students won't be wearing masks, and the older students won't be able to study remotely. And this in a country with one of the highest mortality rates from Covid in the world.

You can read the full article here.

www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/world/middleeast/coronavirus-israel-schools-reopen.html

OP’s posts: |
ohthegoats Wed 05-Aug-20 23:34:08

A friend in Israel was telling me about her anecdata back when they first started reopening. Straight away it was younger people with cases.

At the moment, there is no arguing with this. Apparently British schools are literally the only thing in the world that is going to go back as normal. It will need to be a proven shit show before anyone will change their minds. Hope not too many people die as a result. DfE guidance on staff death not reassuring. If it goes bad there will be an exodus of staff too. So that's good.

DrMadelineMaxwell Wed 05-Aug-20 23:38:49

Add that to the Guardian article about the spread of covid in the summer camp in the States!

PineappleUpsideDownCake Wed 05-Aug-20 23:39:40

I realky wish we were doing part time/half classes/distancing.

As someone higher risk Im really really worried .

Freddiefox Wed 05-Aug-20 23:43:54

DfE guidance on staff death not reassuring.

Hi can you expand on what you mean?

Bonnieonthelam Wed 05-Aug-20 23:48:43

I’m worried too. As september is nearing I am dreading my kids returning. We are all suffering from Asthma and when we get colds and flu it stays a long time and the kids get really sick. All the people and families a who are healthy and not at so much risk who are vacationing in hotspots increasing the spread.

Uhoh2020 Wed 05-Aug-20 23:58:13

There is a difficult balance between what we'd like ideally and what is actually practical within the education facilities we have across the board.
There will be some schools that have extra space extra staff extra funding to be able to adequately provide a mix of part time/blended/smaller classes/home learning but the reality is that the majority of schools don't. We have to make do with the facilities and funding we have got because that is not going to radically change over night.
I'm sure we.'d all accept 1/2 days in school, with 3/4 at home all being taught the same level as in the classroom with every child access to their own laptop or tablet with unlimited Internet access and 1 parent at home the whole time with them. Teachers on hand all the time whilst the children are at home learning so no one is stuck or falls behind, whilst another teacher holds the fort with those children whose turn it is to be inside the school gates.
Of course it will be wonderful in an ideal scenario but for the real world and many children that ain't ever going to be a realistic proposition.

TheSunIsStillShining Thu 06-Aug-20 00:49:51

My son proposed that for secondary age kids why do they have to even go in more than 1 day a week? They are being "fed" the information anyway, so whatever the medium is - it doesn't make that much of a difference.... (his words). He only wants to go in to do the chemistry and physics experiments smile

CKBJ Thu 06-Aug-20 00:50:34

Nothing has returned to normal as we are still in the middle of a pandemic. Shops implement social distancing,pubs/restaurants operating at reduced capacity,some industries not even open but in England we seem hell bent on opening schools as basically normal! NHS has had to adapt. GP appointments are via online Econsults, not everyone has internet access did that stop them from doing it? Even appointments with consultants are more likely to be on phone than in person. Things change. Maybe education needs to change too. Use this as a positive opportunity- is it healthy and best for the child to be in school/childcare such long days 8-6in some cases? Should children really start formal education at 4? Should outdoor learning be the normal? Should the academic year run from Sept to July? There are loads of things to explore and bring education up to 21st century.

jomartin281271 Thu 06-Aug-20 00:52:13

Uhoh2020
If the government can spend hundreds of billions keeping the economy afloat, I'm sure they could spare a bit more to spend on schools. If they send the kids back as they plan to, the virus will sweep through the country again. Why not spend the money on remote teaching for the older kids? Recruit students in their final year at teacher training to reduce class sizes - it would give them hands on experience. Use local halls and theatres to create extra space. Yes, it would take a lot of plannng, but what have the D of E been doing for the last five months? Have they been furloughed.
We all agree that our kids education is important and that schools should be open. But opening them under the current guidelines will send the virus back out into the community, and it could kill vulnerable members of the family back at home.
This government needs to wake up. We've already seen what a callous lack of respect they have for life with the way they treated care homes. I don't want schools to go the same way.

OP’s posts: |
Jihhery Thu 06-Aug-20 00:58:09

I agree, it's all very silly.

Couchbettato Thu 06-Aug-20 01:12:06

I'm tremendously grateful that I don't have a school-age child just yet, but my brother is due to start his GCSEs. He's SEN, and can't cook for himself, or wash his own uniform and can only manage short periods of time alone, so when my single mum is out at work (community, with vulnerable adults), my brother is looked after by my gran.

My gran has just turned 70, and hasn't yet retired (NHS/agency staff, frontline) as she's very specialised and is really needed during this pandemic.

At the moment my brother is staying with me, because it's the school holidays, but once school starts I'm not sure where he'll go because I have a clotting disorder, and as we all know covid causes blood clots, but I'm scared he would take it back to my elderly gran, or that my gran may bring something from work for my brother to transmit around school. All while my mum struggles in the community, because she needs money to live but also needs more time off to look after my brother, but furlough has been a shit show, and didn't materialise for her, and as more and more staff isolate, the more she's needed to make sure her service users are also taken care of.

Schools reopening is daunting for us as a family. We want it to happen, but there are just too many risks still out there, and telling us to live with the following risk is like telling us to accept others don't care that we might die, or be left with long term damage.

Flagsfiend Thu 06-Aug-20 06:52:43

Freddiefox

*DfE guidance on staff death not reassuring.*

Hi can you expand on what you mean?

I'm guessing they are referring to this cheery publication published last week www.gov.uk/guidance/steps-to-take-following-the-death-of-a-colleague-in-childrens-services

Piggywaspushed Thu 06-Aug-20 07:12:48

There are a lot of concerns in America and some school districts are not gang back. Those that are or have arguably have a few more protections in place than the UK but this is still what it looks like when a bunch of teenagers go back to school !

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/georgia-class-quarantined-after-first-day-of-school-as-images-of-crowded-school-circulate-online/ar-BB17BMZO?ocid=spartanntp_edu

Piggywaspushed Thu 06-Aug-20 07:15:16

going back obviously!

LegoMaus Thu 06-Aug-20 07:41:32

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wagtailred Thu 06-Aug-20 07:51:54

I know this is about schools and its become very clear how underfunded schools are, particularly the IT side of things and the very tight staffing situstion.
But its also really highlighted how so many children live in overcrowded homes with no/poor internet access and no proper device and relying on school food. this has been the biggest issue for education and probably why schools are opening to all pupils full time.

Trackandtrace Thu 06-Aug-20 07:52:14

Anyone concerned about schools check out ' boycott return to unsafe schools '

They have a facebook page and groups and are on twitter.

They have a statement and clear plan
School reopening to be safe, sensible and sustainable

moretolifethanthis2020 Thu 06-Aug-20 07:59:51

It fascinates me that most people on Mumsnet ignore the fact that for a huge proportion of children in the UK, that schools are their place, that schools are their first line of support for child protection, that schools had to provide breakfast for them as they weren't getting it at home. These children have been totally and utterly forgotten about. Not all pupils come from nice middle class homes! You shut these schools down for any longer and there is a MASSIVE safeguarding risk. There already is a massive issue. Viruses are not new to 2020. The flu season kills thousands upon thousands each year, and that's WITH a vaccination. The whole reaction is ludicras. I am a teacher btw.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras Thu 06-Aug-20 08:00:44

*I'm guessing they are referring to this cheery publication published last week www.gov.uk/guidance/steps-to-take-following-the-death-of-a-colleague-in-childrens-services*

It's crazy that the last paragraph mentions HSE and how a death suspected to be caused by occupational hazard will be investigated with the potential for employers to be prosecuted for breaking H and S legislation - so that's all schools then?

bodgeitandscarper Thu 06-Aug-20 08:03:13

This is nothing like the flu ffs, and it's 'ludicrous'!

KnobChops Thu 06-Aug-20 08:09:27

moretolifethanthis2020

It fascinates me that most people on Mumsnet ignore the fact that for a huge proportion of children in the UK, that schools are their place, that schools are their first line of support for child protection, that schools had to provide breakfast for them as they weren't getting it at home. These children have been totally and utterly forgotten about. Not all pupils come from nice middle class homes! You shut these schools down for any longer and there is a MASSIVE safeguarding risk. There already is a massive issue. Viruses are not new to 2020. The flu season kills thousands upon thousands each year, and that's WITH a vaccination. The whole reaction is ludicras. I am a teacher btw.

Totally agree. The community levels of the virus are much lower than they were when we shut down earlier this year, so the chances of a child having the virus is much smaller. We also now have the ability to test anyone with symptoms. And the risk to children from this virus is infinitesimally small.

There is an awful lot of anti school opening propaganda on this website, fuelled I suspect by people who don’t want to return to work and cushioned sahm who haven’t ventured out of the house in months and have no idea of the reality of most people’s lives.

WhenSheWasBad Thu 06-Aug-20 08:15:01

LegoMaus

The problem is that nowadays people are very selfish and their idea of “freedom” is “me first at all costs, to hell with anyone else”. Parents want their free full time childcare, and the government wants to avoid spending any money, and they all refuse to accept that the world has changed. We should be innovating new ways to educate kids and keep them safe, instead of stamping feet and shouting “My child will not wear a muzzle!”

Totally agree.

I’m an NQT. I’m desperate for schools to go back in Sept but not in this wildly optimistic manner. If the government doesn’t bring in stricter guidelines the schools will be shut again in 1-2 months. sad

Letseatgrandma Thu 06-Aug-20 08:16:32

Of course it will be wonderful in an ideal scenario

We are not in an ‘ideal scenario’. We are as far from an ideal scenario as we could be. In fact we are teetering at the edge of a cliff when we talk about schools returning.

Nothing else has returned as ‘normal’ yet that’s what the government has planned, because they refuse to give schools a penny extra.

We need to find a way to open schools and keep them open. As the situation in Israel and Georgia has shown-going back ‘as normal’ will result in them closing again. I presumed from reading comments on here, people don’t want schools to close, so there needs to be proper risk mitigation in place. This will mean that schools won’t look ‘normal’.

Bupkis Thu 06-Aug-20 08:17:17

I don't think anyone is anti schools opening and having them completely closed

I think people have many concerns about them opening to all children in a few weeks time, when it doesn't feel as if we have the right systems in place to be as risk free as possible.

I would like the option of keeping ds home, not because I am a middle class sahm who has been fannying about having a ball through lockdown, but because he has been shielding until now, he has complex needs and is medically vulnerable and I'd quite like him not to die.

And it's not like the fucking flu!

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