Those crowding in public spaces and jobs.

[itsgettingweird]

I've had a thought this morning.

It's very clear there are still a number of furloughed staff.

Those in public sector are working. NHS, police, council, care and education etc.

Those other keyworkers such as delivery drivers and supermarket staff and essential to infrastructure etc are still working.

I doubt they make up a large proportion of those on beaches, in parks and possibly outside football stadiums. (Although that was evening)

So are those gathered those who's jobs are most at risk? The ones who may definitely lose their jobs if we have a second wave and have to lock down again?

[MNnicknameforCVthreads]

Maybe, but what’s your point?

[itsgettingweird]

No point

[Napqueen1234]

@MNnicknameforCVthreads I suppose OPs point may be that it’s ironic that those people who’s jobs and lives are dependent on the economy recovering and life going back to normal are behaving in a way that is more likely to cause further restrictions and therefore could contribute to them losing their jobs.

[Ponoka7]

If you mean Anfield last night, then a large % are key workers. Many are on my FB, or connected to people on my FB. Here in Liverpool, we don't have stable employment. Our Council budget, once again, is going to be the lowest in England, we've got a £27 million deficit on the, too small spending amount that we had thanks to Austerity.

Last night's Champions league win was a bit of light, in gloomy times.

As is often said, the biggest threat to most people's health isn't Covid. It's also been said that we won't lock down again. The second wave will likely be a natural one over winter and not because people want to grab a bit of life's pleasures.

[Bol87]

From chatting to a friend in Bournmouth, a large percentage were young people. They are bored. GCSE’s have been cancelled. A Levels. Uni. Those finishing uni are struggling to get jobs. Plus you have a large amount of people furloughed. And even those who are working will have likely not used much annual leave this year as there was nowhere to go & events cancelled. My OH & several off his team took various days this week off at last minute! This weekend was also meant to be Glastonbury. So there’ll be a lot of people who already had this week off.

I recon to an extend we seeing a bottle neck of people who would normally be off to Malia, Magaluf, Benidorm, Sunny Beach at this point in the year. We ship out our anti-social behaviour to these poor hotspots but this year, we are having to deal with them instead!

[itsgettingweird]

Yeah nap I guess that's what I was thinking.

But from my side I'm keeping safe. I do go to a local beach that's quiet but deliberately go early and set up with windbreaks.
I wouldn't go to Bournemouth (I'm not far!) because I wouldn't feel safe.

But on the flip side I'm a keyworker in public sector. Despite years of pay freezes and problems that way with wages not reflecting inflation I'm in the enviable position right now that my job will remain whatever happens.

Part of me was wondering if this was public sector workers or keyworkers (they have days off!) who know jobs are safe even if second wave or those on furlough who I can imagine are very disenfranchised right now with uncertain future. But the irony of this being their jobs are the ones at risk if we have to re lockdown.

I'm very interested in psychology and what makes people act in a way they do.
I can't answer how furloughed people feel.

[itsgettingweird]

Bol excellent points and that makes sense.

[Ponoka7]

Also Brexit was/is going to do as much damage to parts of the UK as lock down has.

All of a sudden people are experts on the economy. Large parts of the country don't benefit whatsoever from our economy doing well.

[Napqueen1234]

@Bol87 I do actually feel hugely for young people at the moment. You’re only young once and to have all the joys of life pulled away I can see why a trip to the beach with mates on a lovely day would be appealing (Especially as the actual risks of covid to them are v low...I know that’s not the point though).

[MNnicknameforCVthreads]

Ah, ok.

I think you could flip it though and say “those people” are behaving in a way that gets the economy going again.

Of course I don’t approve of littering, irresponsible parking etc, but visitors to Bournemouth (for example) would all pretty much all have spent money on their day out. Isn’t that what the economy needs us all to be doing?

I don’t think government will place any significant further restrictions now as they’d have to start up furlough etc again.

Of course, I may be wrong but I’m in the camp that think things need to go back to a bit of normality now. It’s just sad that for some normality is behaving irresponsibly.

[Ponoka7]

There won't be one answer. The life expectancy of the North is different from the South, so perhaps that influences people's actions? Dying in your 60's is nothing new to men in Scotland. Poor health because of life stresses/money worries is nothing new.

Parts of the North, Stable employment, opportunities? Low child poverty? What's that?

Look at the pictures, what danger is anyone under 50 in? And no, not everyone will be then visiting older relatives.

I think the feeling is that we won't lock down again and we can't carry on living a half life, in fear. Plus schools/nurseries and work is starting up again next week, so people went to the beach.

[user1497207191]

visitors to Bournemouth (for example) would all pretty much all have spent money on their day out. Isn’t that what the economy needs us all to be doing?

Spending by day trippers is peanuts. An ice cream and a burger & chips for lunch won't save the economy, not to mention a lot of them were clearly taking cool bags with them, presumably bring snacks & drinks with them from home.

To "save" the economy, people need to be staying longer, buying more in local shops, filling local hotels, etc.

My home town is a run down Northern seaside resort. It's because of day trippers that it's run down. No one wants to stay, so hotels get turned into doss-houses, people bring their own food/drinks, so local shops/cafes only get crumbs of business.

Please don't believe the lies that day trippers help the local economy - their impact is minimal. Tourist areas need longer term visitors.

[user1497207191]

what danger is anyone under 50 in

No worries at all if you're selfish and only care about yourself.

What about those under 50 who catch covid and go around infecting other people around them who weren't so selfish and stupid to spend the day in a crowded place, ignoring social distancing rules?

What about the under 50s who then go to visit their elderly relatives, or serve elderly customers in shops? What about those under 50 who ignore social distancing rules in their workplaces and pass it to their co-workers, who in turn pass it to their elderly relatives.

All the Covid precautions are about not passing it to others - it's never been about stopping you getting it yourself.

[itsgettingweird]

Nap I agree. It makes sense loads if young people and I would hope it means any spread maybe limited.

[itsgettingweird]

MNnickname how much are they bringing money though? Most places are still shut.

I guess we can hope as more places are open the people have further to spread and therefore crowds will be smaller?

[EnlightenedOwl]

@Bol87

From chatting to a friend in Bournmouth, a large percentage were young people. They are bored. GCSE’s have been cancelled. A Levels. Uni. Those finishing uni are struggling to get jobs. Plus you have a large amount of people furloughed. And even those who are working will have likely not used much annual leave this year as there was nowhere to go & events cancelled. My OH & several off his team took various days this week off at last minute! This weekend was also meant to be Glastonbury. So there’ll be a lot of people who already had this week off.

I recon to an extend we seeing a bottle neck of people who would normally be off to Malia, Magaluf, Benidorm, Sunny Beach at this point in the year. We ship out our anti-social behaviour to these poor hotspots but this year, we are having to deal with them instead!

Absolutely spot on

[MNnicknameforCVthreads]

user

I didn’t necessarily mean spending money while they were there - I meant exactly what you said - stocking up and buying petrol in their gone town before heading off.

There will have been people spending money somewhere, at this stage it doesn’t matter that much where it’s being spent, people just need to be out and about spending and doing.

[dingledongle]

This is what the government means about 'common sense' and 'social responsibility' many people just don't seem to understand what the issue has been.

If we rely on people's common sense there will be a second rise/wave.

I live by the sea and herds if folks have travelled here- partying, having fish and chips, sitting on beach.

I can see it from both sides however individuals need to take responsibility and I don't think they will.

Stupid is as stupid does

[itsgettingweird]

User thanks for that. Interesting to learn about seaside towns. I live near one but it's not a tourist town. There are loads of cafes along the front etc and when ds and I have been for walks alongside there we've quite a number of times brought food and drinks during lockdown.

However when we visit beach on a normal summers day (and by normal I mean ore Covid!) we take our own (and use bins or take home!). The bars and cafes are usually full and I don't go to a beach to stand in a queue. I go to read my kindle and cool off in the sea

Makes you rethink a lot of things.

[itsgettingweird]

There will have been people spending money somewhere, at this stage it doesn’t matter that much where it’s being spent, people just need to be out and about spending and doing.

Agree.

So much depends on that.

I hope as more opens this will spread people out and the risks of overcrowding will decrease.

[hettie]

@user1497207191 what danger is anyone under 50 in it's not just asymptomatic or dead you know. DH was training for a marathon. and under 50, Covid has massively impacted his health. Those with 'mild' cases (ie not hospitalised, although he was but did not need breathing assistance) are finding this hugely debilitating for months and may find long term impacts for life. So covid will have impacts on work and ability to work for man many people of we allow it to spread and not just on the many families who have lost someone

[Ponoka7]

hettie, but there are a lot of risks that we decide for ourselves. At no other time has this government gave a shit about the health of people in Northern cities, especially Liverpool. One of the reasons why Liverpool has been so hard hit is, because if our appalling air quality and being ran into the ground by Austerity. We have lost major employers, over the last two years, but there's no recognition that those jobs will be replaced. All we got was the bedroom tax, further cuts, which caused more deaths than Covid did.

Football is a big part of our life and economy. Our city relies on the revenue that the Grand National and Football brings in. So we will celebrate. It's good news for the city.

[itsgettingweird]

I agree. I was unsure about adding on the footie celebrations because it was an entirely different situation. It's fair to say it's like the protests.

But the issue of social distancing at these events and spreading still exists.

But I understand it's a cause rather than a day out iyswim?

[hettie]

@Ponoka7 .Yeah I agree, I was merely suggesting that the risks are not as black and white as "only over 50's are at risk of being severely impacted' it's more nuanced.
Generally speaking people are very very bad at understanding risk and very often the state had to step in to manage risk at a population level. It's a tricky balance really as if we allowed everyone to decide their own risk we would not mandate seat belts, not tax cigarettes so highly etc....The difficulty with many public health issues (and this virus in particular) is that it is an individuals risk to take but it can have an impact on all of us.
And yes austerity is shit and has killed, it's killed very many vulnerable people in the city I live in too and has had massive consequences..

[IrisPurple]

Us public sector workers will just lose our jobs a little bit later than everyone else, that's all. Once the government realise they can no longer afford to have us all on the national payroll.