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Are Jewish people BAME?

(202 Posts)
novacaneforthepain Sat 20-Jun-20 08:41:59

I have looked this up and find so many different answers. Does anyone know for a fact?

OP’s posts: |
Floatyboat Sat 20-Jun-20 08:46:00

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

lankylemon Sat 20-Jun-20 08:50:57

I am of Jewish origin and I wonder this too.

I never know what to tick on those forms as nothing ever quite fits. Usually end up with ‘white - other’.

Jews have also experienced a higher death rate from CV19.

I have experienced racism but also have the relative privilege of appearing white. However family members have been attacked for looking Jewish. Is that racism or another -ism? Who knows?

But given that your average far right group would want to kill me, and given how scared I feel living in a country where the borders are shut, I’m going with yes.

Don’t know if that’s ‘officially’ correct, though.

AnnaMagnani Sat 20-Jun-20 08:51:43

I'd say some are, some aren't but that isn't scientific.

For the purposes of coronavirus, there were outbreaks in Ultra- Orthodox Hassidic populations.

You could easily say they are BAME - they are living in relatively isolated communities with limited outside links, marry within the community, feature many of the high risks such as inter-generational living, discrimination, relative poverty. There are also known genetic traits within the Ashkenazi Jewish population.

I would guess your risk if you are in a Liberal Jewish household is not the same - and likely the risk in the Hassidic communities has changed as they radically changed behaviour after the risks of the virus were known.

lankylemon Sat 20-Jun-20 08:53:05

“ they are living in relatively isolated communities with limited outside links, marry within the community, feature many of the high risks such as inter-generational living, discrimination, relative poverty.”

Which has exactly what to do with determining ethnicity?

FTMF30 Sat 20-Jun-20 08:53:37

@Floatyboat What's the narrative?

FannyFoundation Sat 20-Jun-20 08:56:51

If your DNA heritage is jewish ashkenazi or sephardic then yes that is BAME.

Isthisfinallyit Sat 20-Jun-20 09:01:02

IIRC all jews are decendants from Israel, which is a country in Asia. So for me that fits the asian part of BAME. However, I think a lot if people only think of east Asia when they think if Asian people.

Floatyboat Sat 20-Jun-20 09:03:40

@FTMF30

I think they try to map out a hierarchy of perceived oppression. See corbyn's blind spot on antisemetism and the attempt to silence Priti Patel by various labour MPs.

Destroyedpeople Sat 20-Jun-20 09:04:49

Kind of...but there is such a variety of people within 'Jewishness'. I have heard the covid stats are worse but as others have said theRe are other factors. ..

novacaneforthepain Sat 20-Jun-20 09:04:54

Yes that makes sense @Isthisfinallyit

OP’s posts: |
Floatyboat Sat 20-Jun-20 09:05:45

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

lankylemon Sat 20-Jun-20 09:06:21

The more I think about it, the more I land on yes - because ‘would a far right group want me dead’ is a pretty effective litmus test.

okiedokieme Sat 20-Jun-20 09:06:39

Jewish is a religion, people can be of any ethnic group, certain orthodox groups are of one ethnic group but have no idea if they are higher risk, I doubt it because most have Eastern European heritage. My friend is conservative Jew and white British, it's like saying are Hindus higher risk just because most Hindus are from a certain ethnic background but not all.

lankylemon Sat 20-Jun-20 09:07:03

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lankylemon Sat 20-Jun-20 09:08:01

In fact fuck this, I’m hiding this thread as already the stereotype of Jews being rich has shown up. Great.

novacaneforthepain Sat 20-Jun-20 09:09:50

Sorry if I have offended anyone.

I am asking because my birth dad was Jewish and I don't know him at all so have no other information about him other than that.

Just got me wondering.

OP’s posts: |
Dollywilde Sat 20-Jun-20 09:12:40

I think this is difficult and one of the reasons the BAME acronym differs slightly from the fully spelt out Black and Minority Ethnic label (afaik there are those who take issue with the acronym version due to its narrow construction - civilservice.blog.gov.uk/2019/07/08/please-dont-call-me-bame-or-bme/)

As someone who is in the ethnic majority in this country I wouldn’t say it’s my position to make that call but certainly there are many Jewish people who have an ethnic minority background.

lankylemon Sat 20-Jun-20 09:12:58

novacaneforthepain

Sorry if I have offended anyone.

I am asking because my birth dad was Jewish and I don't know him at all so have no other information about him other than that.

Just got me wondering.

You haven’t - floaty’s post is the deeply offensive one.

Floatyboat Sat 20-Jun-20 09:14:50

Sorry not sure how it's offensive? Could you explain?

Firefliess Sat 20-Jun-20 09:14:54

A white friend of mine is Jewish because she married a Jew and converted. She is definitely still white. And a black person could do likewise. So no, people who follow the Jewish religion are not - as a group - BAME in the way that other black or ethnic groups exist.

However conversation is not that common in Jewdaism and the majority of Jews in the UK do share a degree of racial heritage. (They're more at risk of certain illnesses because of this)

So if the factors behind the higher rate of Covid in some BAME groups are to do with genetic vulnerability (eg white Europeans have some better immunity from populations' past exposure to the plague) it is possible that people of Jewish heritage are also more at risk.

sashagabadon Sat 20-Jun-20 09:15:17

i think they can be if the identify as so. We were told at work (in response to a query as to whether a polish member of staff was BAME) that anyone could be if they identified that way.

Millicent10 Sat 20-Jun-20 09:15:21

It is an interesting question, I don’t know the answer. What about gypsies/travellers, they look white but are always down the bottom of the tables when it comes to things like health and education. The far right test also stands.

InsaneInTheViralMembrane Sat 20-Jun-20 09:18:03

Blue-eyed blonde Jew here. Never for a split-second have I considered myself BAME despite my heritage.

Personally I think the high rates amongst the male orthodox communities is a lifestyle think, not ethnicity per se.

lankylemon Sat 20-Jun-20 09:18:53

Floatyboat

Sorry not sure how it's offensive? Could you explain?

Saying that Jews have ‘good socioeconomic outcomes’ is another way of saying they are rich, which is an antisemitic stereotype and a myth.

Some may have high-profile jobs, but it doesn’t mean everyone is well off. Hope that helps.

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