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11 million people die every year of sepsis.

(50 Posts)
TheDailyCarbuncle Tue 16-Jun-20 17:18:35

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51138859

Every year there are around 49 million cases of sepsis, with around
11 million deaths. Sepsis (sometimes known as blood poisioning) can be caused by a cut to your hand, a sore throat, a kidney infection, basically any infection, when your immune system goes into overdrive and starts damaging the organs. Children are most at risk - 40% of deaths are in children under five. There are around 48,000 deaths in the UK from sepsis every year.

When it doesn't kill a patient, it can still lead them needing to be ventilated, having limbs amputated and permanent organ damage.

While covid is a new and worrying illness, I wonder whether some of people's fear is down to the fact that they don't understand the general effect any sort of infection can have on people, no matter what it is. I think people don't realise that a simple infection that one person can shake off can lead to sepsis in another person and that it's very hard to predict when that'll happen.

OP’s posts: |
Haenow Tue 16-Jun-20 17:22:55

There has definitely been more awareness of sepsis in recent years but it’s taken its time.
Many people who survive the worst kind of sepsis (septic shock) live with some level of long term impairment as a result.

user1972548274 Tue 16-Jun-20 17:24:27

Lots of things kill and maim and traumatise lots of people every year. What is your point? And how does it relate to a pandemic causing "extra" deaths , hospitalisations and suffering compared to normal times?

Because your post seems a little like saying in response to a conflict breaking out that "lots of people are murdered each year, so the fact that lots of people are dying in that war is irrelevant".

Orangeblossom78 Tue 16-Jun-20 17:43:48

In relation to covid, are you meaning some of the cases have sepsis, I read over 50% of the serious ones do?

Just wondering the context here.

Yes I have had sepsis twice, in hospital after abdominal conditions, it is very serious, IV antibiotics and blood transfusions...they give you lots of fluids in a drip as well - and then shingles on recovery

Orangeblossom78 Tue 16-Jun-20 17:44:55

www.sepsis.org/news/the-connection-between-covid-19-sepsis-and-sepsis-survivors/

Haenow Tue 16-Jun-20 18:05:54

Sepsis is a factor that kills many of the serious COVID-19 patients. Awareness is important.

Weepinggreenwillow Tue 16-Jun-20 18:09:28

user1972548274

Lots of things kill and maim and traumatise lots of people every year. What is your point? And how does it relate to a pandemic causing "extra" deaths , hospitalisations and suffering compared to normal times?

Because your post seems a little like saying in response to a conflict breaking out that "lots of people are murdered each year, so the fact that lots of people are dying in that war is irrelevant".

actually, there were NO excess deaths last week as can be seen here:
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/891584/Weekly_all_cause_mortality_surveillance_week_24_2020_report.pdf

Actually, deaths in hospitals are currently LOWER than predicted overall. One hypothesis suggests that when averaged out over 12 months the total number of EXCESS deaths will not be anywhere near as high as expected. This is due to the fact that a lot of the people who have tragically died as a result of COVID in the first 4/5 months of this year would have been people who would most likely have died of other underlying conditions in the coming months.

Statistics are funny things. You can use them to convince people of almost anything ......

TheDailyCarbuncle Tue 16-Jun-20 20:29:27

user1972548274

Lots of things kill and maim and traumatise lots of people every year. What is your point? And how does it relate to a pandemic causing "extra" deaths , hospitalisations and suffering compared to normal times?

Because your post seems a little like saying in response to a conflict breaking out that "lots of people are murdered each year, so the fact that lots of people are dying in that war is irrelevant".

I'm not sure how you got that from my post.

My point was that people seem very scared by covid, and by the fact that some people get very ill or die while others are unaffected by it. I was illustrating that the same pattern occurs in all other types of infections - it's possible to get a urinary tract infection and be absolutely fine or it's possible for it to kill you (with older people being more susceptible in that case). It's also possible to pick up an infection from a cut that causes you no trouble or that results in sepsis, a very long hospital stay, ventilation and long term effects.

Given that 11 million people a year die of sepsis, dying as a result of infection, any infection, viral or bacterial, is not a rare or unknown thing unfortunately. Covid is just one of many infections that can cause that outcome. That's not to say no one should be worried about it, it's to point out that it isn't a sudden new threat that was never there before - infection has always been a threat that we've had to deal with.

OP’s posts: |
FluffyKittensinabasket Tue 16-Jun-20 21:04:39

@ Weepinggreenwillow - that’s really interesting regarding excess deaths, thanks for posting.

BigChocFrenzy Tue 16-Jun-20 21:06:24

That 11 million per year is out of a global population of nearly 8 billion

It is only deaths in our own country, or in our neighbours, that register emotionally for most of us, that affect our decisions, our feeling of risk,
not the millions who die around the world from hunger, wars etc

BigChocFrenzy Tue 16-Jun-20 21:11:26

On the statistics thread 10, we've been discussing that
excess deaths are now about 5-8% above normal for this time of year,

- since deaths from some other causes take months to be fully registered, these will be added later

Also, those in care homes probably only had a couple of years to live,
but most deaths were not in care homes

Statisticians and actuaries have calculated that the average person who died lost about 10 years

Note:
Statistically, a woman who reaches the age of 80 has a life expectancy of about 10 more years; a man has 9 years

Flagsfiend Tue 16-Jun-20 21:11:51

I looked up UK figures for sepsis, it kills around 44000 a year - which is similar to current covid-19 numbers. However sepsis isn't contagious and so measures to combat it are based on awareness to get early treatment. Whereas covid-19 is definitely contagious and they were saying without lockdown could kill 500000 people in the UK. So I guess we should take appropriate precautions against both, but those precautions will be very different.

MRex Tue 16-Jun-20 21:15:35

@Weepinggreenwillow - less people have died of other causes because of lockdown; road traffic accidents are way down for example. On average people dying are losing >10 years of life, not a few weeks. Many people have very long-term recovery, a far higher percentage than you would see with typical flu. The thing to do is to say "I'm not worried about myself because...", that's fine. It's not ok to pretend that nobody was actually ill, that's mental conspiracy theory territory that can be easily disproved by reading more or talking to actual medical professionals who are seeing these cases every day.

BigChocFrenzy Tue 16-Jun-20 21:16:59

The crisis is wounding down, for now at least and lockdown is being relaxed,
but we should not try to minimise what happened

A developed country does not expect to have a large number of excess deaths

The Uk had > 64,000 deaths above the historical average for the last few years during March - May

This included high excess deaths in several English regions

TheDailyCarbuncle Tue 16-Jun-20 21:18:24

MRex

*@Weepinggreenwillow* - less people have died of other causes because of lockdown; road traffic accidents are way down for example. On average people dying are losing >10 years of life, not a few weeks. Many people have very long-term recovery, a far higher percentage than you would see with typical flu. The thing to do is to say "I'm not worried about myself because...", that's fine. It's not ok to pretend that nobody was actually ill, that's mental conspiracy theory territory that can be easily disproved by reading more or talking to actual medical professionals who are seeing these cases every day.

That's all true. It's also true that there has been an increase in deaths from other causes, that NHS staff were very concerned that people were avoiding coming to hospital with symptoms of strokes and heart attacks and that diagnoses of other illnesses like cancer were being seriously delayed.

Lockdown itself will kill a large number of people. It seems that many consider those deaths to be worth it.

OP’s posts: |
Incrediblytired Tue 16-Jun-20 21:18:27

But corona virus killed that many people in 3 months with the population locked down.

If we did nothing, it would be half a million dead in a year and the hospitals wouldn’t offer any care, they would say “sorry we could have helped you and you might have lived but we are full, so you will probably die and you have to die elsewhere”.

So it’s not really comparable is it?

peppapigisscottish Tue 16-Jun-20 21:19:36

* Lots of things kill and maim and traumatise lots of people every year. What is your point?*

The point is that people need to be more aware of sepsis and the symptoms so people don't die needlessly from it. My Dad being one if them biscuit

namechangenumber204 Tue 16-Jun-20 21:19:43

I think the issue is that just by meeting up for a coffee with a friend I don't expose myself to Sepsis. It is the fact that it is spread randomly that is the difference.

Weepinggreenwillow Tue 16-Jun-20 21:31:01

MRex I think you will find I made no comment on long term recovery and certainly made no claims about it being comparable to flu. I have never pretended nobody was ill. I also did not quote figures for how many years of life people are losing (actually, statistically speaking it would be quite difficult to give and accurate estimate of this at this stage.) It is a fact that last week there were no excess deaths in England. It is also a fact that hospital deaths are currently below predicted for many causes including heart attacks and strokes. Those are just simply facts.
I am in do way denying what has happened and am most certainly not talking about conspiracies.
However it does seem that people are very selective about exactly what statistics and facts the chose to listen to right now. Anyone dares to share facts or figures that are not liked and they are accused of being in "mental conspiracy theory territory."
And thanks for the tip to talk to an actual medical professional. Just so happens I am a doctor and am currently spending all my working day sweating in PPE, keeping up with the ever changing guidelines, so I think I've got that covered thanks.

lymphopenia Tue 16-Jun-20 21:32:05

People die of sepsis from covid too...

Weepinggreenwillow Tue 16-Jun-20 21:33:30

And also deaths from suicide are currently increased, and homicides etc... And it is also significantly likely there will be an increase in cancer deaths in the coming months. But the t hose are facts and figures people don't seem to like either.

BigChocFrenzy Tue 16-Jun-20 21:34:39

"Lockdown itself will kill a large number of people. It seems that many consider those deaths to be worth it."

The 2008 financial crisis and the following austerity killed many thousands, because poverty always does
- but it happened over several years ... and was not infectious

A large number of deaths in a short time is a much greater shock and has much more political & social effect than if they were spread out
Also when it is from a new danger
(e.g. the impact of 3,000 dying in 9/11, in the USA where 2.8 million die in a year)

The NHS didn't have the capacity to continue some important non-COVID treatments,
but that is the result of many years of cuts and political choices.

The health services of other European countries like Italy were overwhelmed by cases,
whereas some like Germany cancelled elective surgeries, but had spare capacity to keep a lot more services continuing
and then restarted normal service weeks ago

cologne4711 Tue 16-Jun-20 21:35:23

Sepsis isn't contagious but we need effective antibiotics to combat it. Overuse of hand sanitiser will lead to even more antibiotic resistance.

We have to stop all this sanitiser nonsense. Wash your hands with soap and water often and put the anti-bacterial sanitiser away!

Lockdown itself will kill a large number of people. It seems that many consider those deaths to be worth it yes.

BigChocFrenzy Tue 16-Jun-20 21:44:02

Most epidemiologists and virologists around the world have supported lockdown,
those pesky experts

However, many European countries were able to relax lockdown weeks ago, restart schools and the economy

The UK is taking so long because it locked down late - and exponential growth meant far more infections -
and the government has wasted the time by not organising properly how to come out of lockdown
e.g. chaos & constant changes for schools
e.g. mass contact tracking system won't be fully operational until September / October

Haenow Tue 16-Jun-20 21:48:39

cologne4711

Sepsis isn't contagious but we need effective antibiotics to combat it. Overuse of hand sanitiser will lead to even more antibiotic resistance.

We have to stop all this sanitiser nonsense. Wash your hands with soap and water often and put the anti-bacterial sanitiser away!

Lockdown itself will kill a large number of people. It seems that many consider those deaths to be worth it yes.

Viruses can cause sepsis too, so it isn’t all about the antibiotics.

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