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Fines for not wearing masks on public transport.

(12 Posts)
HeIenaDove Fri 12-Jun-20 21:37:57

www.itv.com/news/2020-06-12/transport-secretary-grant-shapps-leads-government-s-daily-coronavirus-press-conference/

People who use public transport could be fined up to £100 if they do not wear a face covering from Monday, the transport secretary has warned.

From June 15 it will be compulsory for people to wear a face covering when on public transport and operators will be able to "refuse permission to travel" if someone is not wearing one.

Grant Shapps said there will be "gentle approach" to enforcement during first couple of days, but said there will be "fines for non-compliance too".

He told the Downing Street briefing: “Remembering your face covering should be the same as picking up your phone, your wallet or your purse whenever you’re leaving your house.”

He said people should wear face coverings to "protect your fellow commuters" when travelling on the buses, coaches, trams, ferries, aircraft and trains.

The transport secretary said people should only wear coverings - something such as a scarf or a home-made garment - and not clinical face masks, which should only be health professionals.

Hundreds of thousands of face coverings will be handed out for passenger use at many locations across the rail network in England from Monday.

The one-off initiative, which will run for several days at a number of stations, will see coverings provided free of charge to support passengers and help them travel safely.

The police and Transport for London authorised personnel will be able to issue fixed penalty notices of £100, or £50 if paid in 14 days.

Earlier on Friday a German report, published by the Institute of Labour Economics, said compulsory face coverings could “reduce the daily growth rate of reported infections by around 40%”.

Mr Shapps said there was no need for people to wear them in all public settings, just in enclosed spaces.

“By its very nature if you are on a train or a plane or a ferry or a bus you are in an enclosed area.

"That is not the case if you are out and about on the streets. And I think that may be the principle difference of this.”

Sir Peter Hendy, the chairman of Network Rail, said as the economy ramps up with the reopening of non-essential retail from Monday, "there will be more and more occasions in which you might be closer to people than you would care for".

As such, he said it seems "perfectly logical" to enforce face coverings from the same point.

Professor Stephen Powis added that “the evidence is weak" on the effectiveness of face coverings in reducing the spread of coronavirus, but said there is "some evidence" they work.

He said it is "better" for people to wear them in "closed spaces than open spaces where there is less risk of transmission".

Exemptions for the use of face coverings will apply to those with certain health conditions, disabled people and children under the age of 11.

Cab hailing app Uber has followed the government's lead in enforcing face coverings, with all drivers and passengers across the UK being told to wear them from Monday.

The firm’s regional general manager for northern and eastern Europe, Jamie Heywood, said: "As cities begin to reopen and people start moving again, we’re taking measures to help everyone stay safe and healthy every time they use Uber.

“We’ve introduced measures to ensure that every driver can access the PPE (personal protective equipment) they need for free to help keep them safe when driving with Uber, and, from Monday, we will require anyone using the Uber app in the UK to wear a face covering.”

Mr Shapps played down reports that the chief nursing officer for England has been unable or unwilling to take part in the No 10 press briefings because she would not defend Dominic Cummings.

The transport secretary told the Friday briefing that he expected Ruth May would be appearing again at future briefings.

“I don’t think it is true. She has attended them many times before. I notice that at the top of the No 10 Twitter feed I see one of her tweets pinned,” he said.

“I am absolutely sure she has been a regular contributor before and I am sure she will be back here again.”

The update follows news that the UK economy shrunk by more than a fifth for the first full month of the coronavirus lockdown.

The Office for National Statistics said economic activity dropped by 20.4 per cent in April - the largest drop in a single month since records began in 1997.

Speaking following the release of the figures, Mr Johnson said he was "not surprised" the UK had been "badly hit" by the lockdown.

Mr Shapps sought to allay concerns that the R value could be above one in the South West of England.

“I think not to be overly alarmed because as Professor Steve Powis said it was actually the top of a range which had a number of others that showed it was below 1.”

Professor Powis said: “R is of course a very important way of looking at this but there are other things that we look at.”

But he said the ONS surveillance study showed a “steady reduction” in the number of infections in the community.

“And really that evidence also suggests the R value is below 1 because it is only when the R value is below 1 that we would see that decrease in infections,” he added.

Are disabled people going to constantly have to prove their disabiilty? AGAIN!

OP’s posts: |
MyDogPatch Fri 12-Jun-20 21:57:48

I work on public transport in London.

Most disabled travellers have a Disabled Railcard or London Freedom pass to say they are registered disabled. Most other people without these cards either wear a "Please give me a seat" badge or carry a card either from TfL or charity saying they need extra help (example, one customer showed me a card that said he had Crohn's disease and he need the toilet). I am sure there are similar arrangements in other parts of the country.

Also, transport staff have no powers, at all, to impose fines on the public, apart from those in a revenue protection capacity, but even they cannot fine anyone for anything but fare evasion. Only the police can issue fines. Further, the British Transport Police who look after trains and London Underground are so thin on the ground, meeting an officer is not common at all. Besides, staff and police will advise the customer first. In the unlikely event the customer refuses and the officer is present, a fine might be issued. To be honest, I think the police don't need the paperwork. If it can be avoided, it will be.

It has been compared to the alcohol ban which former London transport commissioner Peter Hendy called a "success". Lots of us in the business had a good laugh at that. It's the least enforced transport policy of the last ten years! Face coverings will be exactly the same.

HeIenaDove Fri 12-Jun-20 22:05:04

Thanks for posting that The staff and drivers locally are usually quite reasonable. Its more the other passengers that i think will be the problem.

OP’s posts: |
PumpkinP Fri 12-Jun-20 22:17:55

Exemptions for the use of face coverings will apply to those with certain health conditions, disabled people and children under the age of 11.

11? I read that children aged 3 and over were expected to wear them.

LavenderLilacTree Fri 12-Jun-20 22:42:42

Government have said masks not appropriate for schools despite teachers/TAs being in enclosed spaces for prolonged periods with no physical distancing and often needing to perform intimate care.
I hope they change their mind. I am a TA and I don't feel safe. My life is important to me, my DH and 4 children.
This article gives me hope we might be allowed some protection.

https://apple.news/An_ErWTecT-ielaCzfQH0rg

HeIenaDove Sun 14-Jun-20 23:25:13

english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/05/db735915ca45-fears-grow-over-heat-exhaustion-caused-by-wearing-masks-in-summer.html

OP’s posts: |
Mnthrowaway20202 Sun 14-Jun-20 23:44:41

@MyDogPatch revenue protection can now issue penalty fares for those without face coverings, screenshot from department for transport gov website

PennyArrowBar Mon 15-Jun-20 08:46:15

*Also, transport staff have no powers, at all, to impose fines on the public, apart from those in a revenue protection capacity, but even they cannot fine anyone for anything but fare evasion. Only the police can issue fines. Further, the British Transport Police who look after trains and London Underground are so thin on the ground, meeting an officer is not common at all. Besides, staff and police will advise the customer first. In the unlikely event the customer refuses and the officer is present, a fine might be issued. To be honest, I think the police don't need the paperwork. If it can be avoided, it will be."

All this. DH works on public transport.

PlanDeRaccordement Mon 15-Jun-20 09:03:55

This won’t go well. There will be many disabled people denied boarding into a bus/train/taxi because they’re not wearing a face covering.

PennyArrowBar Mon 15-Jun-20 12:23:10

*This won’t go well. There will be many disabled people denied boarding into a bus/train/taxi because they’re not wearing a face covering."

I know that Metrolink staff and security have been told not to challenge, question or approach those not wearing masks on public transport. They are to let anyone not wearing a face covering travel as normal.

Xenia Mon 15-Jun-20 12:32:12

MyDog, the alcohol ban has worked however. My 5 children going into London with friends when teenagers or students because they know that is the rule have followed it. Even if it is not enforced it has also helped parents make sure teenagers don't drink on the tube.

I am against compulsory face coverings on civil liberties grounds but follow the law as if we don't and we do things like p ull down statues or disobey rules then anarchy results. However it may be worth people who think they are exempt carrying a print out of the regs with them - Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings on Public Transport) (England) Regulations 2020 in case they come across some jobsworth who says "you must wear a mask".

See www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/592/pdfs/uksi_20200592_en.pdf

As can be seen from there there are lots of exceptions including if someone cannot wear a mask "without severe distress" which covers a multitude of cases in my view including people who just don't like face covers.

Also it is face covering so I think my plastic visor probably counts and is a lot more comfortable - it covers the nose and mouth. the regs do not say the covering must be close nor that it must be material, plastic, full brown covid 19 protective mask or anything else - just to cover nose and mouth unless that causes you severe distress

Phoenix21 Mon 15-Jun-20 12:37:52

I’m in London, used the tube regularly.

My first thought was that like the alcohol ban (publicity stunt if you ask me) this is unenforceable. Many stations are unmanned and it’s rare to see police on the tube especially in rush hour for obvious reasons.

Still, it’s better than nothing.

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