Can my ex have contact with the children at my home

[firstmentat]

Apologies for being dense, but I cannot quite figure it out for myself.

Due to some circumstances, my ex currently has his (infrequent, say once a month for a couple of hours) contact with the children at my house. I read the guidance and it says it is ok for the children to travel between two households of divorced parents - but on the other hand, it also seems that now there is a explicit ban on visits (I mean it can result in prosecution now, I know it wasn't allowed generally before)?

[FrodoTheDodo]

No, children can still move between and stay over, between parents houesholds.

[midnightstar66]

He could see them in your garden now but he can not come in the house. The garden thing is new the not coming in your house has been the case from the start

[iVampire]

Frodo that’s not what she’s asking - it’s the opposite. DC staying put and non resident parent coming to see them and entering the house

I don’t know if that scenario was considered for the regs. I’d chance it. If you can demonstrate why you thought it the safest way for your DC to have contact (something which other parts of regs support), I think you’d get a ‘please desist’ chat first.

And by the time anyone noticed, the regs might have moved on anyhow

But do consider his likely it is for DC’s father to be posing an additional risk to you all. There’s a huge difference in likely exposure depending on his day job and his diligence during any leisure activities

[midnightstar66]

It was covered in the original regs. Dc can go to other parents homes - handovers done outside. At no point has anyone been able to come in to another's home and that hasn't changed, in fact the new laws make it even clearer

[Ponoka7]

You can for child contact arrangements but the adults have to stay apart.

The law is, six people in your garden, two in your house. The two in the house comes under care/support. People for some reason didn't think children came under care/support, but that comes under emotional/mental health support.

It's a social experiment that will still allow for track and trace.

The Police have no right of entry and it's really to stop parties and get togethers to watch the football. As it starts to get rowdy it's given the Police powers to break it up and arrest people. It isn't for general usage around children and visits to protect mental health.

[FrodoTheDodo]

Sorry, I got the wrong end of the stick! Is that court agreed contact to take place in your home? If so, you can continue with it from everything i've seen. If not, yes it shouldn't have been happening anyway so new guidelines shouldn't make a difference. And even though it may be against guidelines and you could be fined, the government haven't given the Police any powers to come into your home to do so.

[TeddyBeans]

I'm in a similar position. My ex is seeing my DS tomorrow for the first time since lockdown started. If you have a garden your ex can have contact there but he doesn't come into the house. If no garden then is there a local park he can take them to?

[firstmentat]

Thanks all for the opinions. The contact is court agreed, but the place where it should happen is not specified. At the moment ex has no household as such to invite the children to (and obviously all the outside places of "fun" are closed now), that's why my house seems to be the only option. He had a couple of visits to my house to see the children before the lockdown, and expects this arrangement to continue. There has been no contact so far during the lockdown.

I know the guidance was that it should not happen all way through, but I understand that now it has a force of a law, right? There's a difference to me, especially as my ex is very trigger-happy to go to the court for the tiniest issue.

[firstmentat]

If you have a garden your ex can have contact there but he doesn't come into the house.
Yes, this might be an option, but the garden is tiny and the contact is 10 am to 4 pm. But maybe I can offer some sort of a compromise.

[firstmentat]

But do consider his likely it is for DC’s father to be posing an additional risk to you all. There’s a huge difference in likely exposure depending on his day job and his diligence during any leisure activities
Yes, this does worry me a little bit - I actually know very little about his life now and how he spends time / what does he do. I know he is studying somewhere.

[LillianBland]

Your ex having no place of residence does not mean you have to let him visit the children in your home, if you don’t want to. Are you happy to gave him visit your home or has he told you that you have no choice?

[FrodoTheDodo]

Actually, even if not court ordered, guidelines say its fine as an exemption.

(1) During the emergency period, unless paragraph (2) applies, no person may participate in a gathering which takes place in a public or private place—
(a)outdoors, and consists of more than six persons, or
(b)indoors, and consists of two or more persons.


(2) This paragraph applies where—
(a)all the persons in the gathering are members of the same household;
(b)the person is attending a funeral, as—
(i)a member of the deceased person’s household,
(ii)a close family member of the deceased person, or
(iii)if no-one within paragraph (i) or (ii) is attending, a friend of the deceased person;
(c)the person concerned is an elite athlete, the coach of an elite athlete, or (in the case of an elite athlete under the age of 18), the parent of an elite athlete, and the gathering is necessary for training or competition;
(d)the gathering is reasonably necessary—
(i)for work purposes, or for the provision of voluntary or charitable services;
(ii)to facilitate a house move;
(iii)to provide care or assistance to a vulnerable person, including relevant personal care within the meaning of paragraph 7(3B) of Schedule 4 to the Safeguarding of Vulnerable Groups Act 2006;
(iv)to provide emergency assistance;
(v)for the purposes of early years childcare provided by a person registered on the Early Years Register under Part 3 of the Childcare Act 2006;
(vi)to enable one or more persons in the gathering to avoid injury or illness or to escape a risk of harm;
(vii)to continue existing arrangements for access to, and contact between, parents and children where the children do not live in the same household as their parents, or one of their parents;
(e)the person concerned is fulfilling a legal obligation or participating in legal proceedings;
(f)the gathering takes place at an educational facility and is reasonably necessary for the purposes of education.

Vii is the relevant exemption to gatherings of two or more people not from the same household indoors.

[firstmentat]

@FrodoTheDodo
Ah thanks Frodo! Yes, this paragraph sums it up perfectly.

[Sally872]

If he had a home and the children visited 10-4 in his home they would be at the same risk as dad in your home.

Only additional risk is dad could catch covid from you or vice versa. Likely you would both be exposed via the children anyway so for me (who sticks to the rules) I think morally this is ok.

Unfortunately not sure about the law. Hopefully you would be asked to stop initially, you aren't having a party or inviting lots of people in.

[firstmentat]

@LillianBland
Happy is a absolutely not the right word here, but if I did not allow it, he would be knocking on the courts door tomorrow with ridiculous accusations of parental alienation (been there, done that). At this point, is is easier for me to lock myself in a room upstairs and let him play dad for a while on the ground floor. If it was a regular occurrence, of course I would not be too happy with it, but it does not happen more than a few times a year (this one will be the third time in 2020 he sees them).

[LillianBland]

he would be knocking on the courts door tomorrow with ridiculous accusations of parental alienation

Let him. Seriously OP, the courts would tell him to wise up. No court would accuse you of parental alienation for not permitting him to enter your home. Your home is supposed to be a haven and there’s a pandemic thrown into the mix. You are permitting, actually inviting the coronavirus into your home, every time he enters.

[GuiltyBark]

I don't think it matters where he sees them (as long as they're safe) technically he might not have been allowed in your house but you were trying to facilitate children spending time with their father which is allowed. The regs are ludicrous and they are from what I can see enforceable mainly to stop blatant pisstaking not people doing their best to accommodate complex needs and difficult situations.

[midnightstar66]

Can't he take them to the park to play football and have a picnic? it's not your problem he doesn't have a household to take them to. It doesn't sound like relations are great so won't be very nice for you and could cause a tense atmosphere for the dc

[Lynda07]

firstment, presumably you are now out of lockdown, can you not go out while your ex is visiting your children? If the weather is nice, you could please yourself for a few hours. Is there stillan explicit ban on visits, I can't keep pace with the changes in the easing of lockdown but being as children have been allowed to go between two households throughout, I see little difference in one parent doing the same. Anyway, who is going to know apart from those involved. In the case of parent and children, they are hardly going to sit at 2m distance throughout the visit anyway.

[LillianBland]

Why is gods name should the OP leave her home to facilitate her bullying ex? It’s up to him to make arrangements flyover facilitate his child contact. I don’t understand how he can’t have them wherever he’s staying OP. If he has the money to constantly threaten you with court, I assume he can afford to have some sort of home.

[midnightstar66]

There's absolutely no way in the world I'd go out and leave my ex in my home - my private space.

[firstmentat]

Let him. Seriously OP, the courts would tell him to wise up.
Thanks for the support. I know that, it had happened before, more than once. The thing is - the court (quite rightly) still will want to hear him and his allegations, even if just to dismiss them outright. There has been an on and off litigation for almost five years now, several "final" orders and it really did impact me in a certain, not very good way, despite all orders being made progressively in my favour. I would prefer to avoid returning there, if the price for the peace is just a couple of hours of discomfort, if it makes sense.

[firstmentat]

I don’t understand how he can’t have them wherever he’s staying OP.
I think he is living a couple of hours away, based on where he is presumably studying. Definitely not locally. Previously to the lockdown I think he stayed in a different country, as it was where the letters to the children came from. But I have no idea really, we aren't on very cordial terms.

[Lynda07]

I didn't say the op should go out and leave him in her home, it was just a suggestion. I know people who do that, even have them stay overnight, so it didn't seem all that outlandish. She must do what she thinks is right for her and her family and I'll keep quiet :).

[LillianBland]

She must do what she thinks is right for her and her family and I'll keep quiet

Are you new to Mumsnet. That’s not how it’s done! You’re supposed to argue with me, in typical Mumsnet fashion. mutter mutter. Bloody newbies, being so nice 😤