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Lying government

(67 Posts)
FrancesV83 Mon 01-Jun-20 17:27:09

Is nobody else noticing that the number of daily death don’t tally up from one day to the next.
For example yesterday the total number was 38,489 and today’s total is 39,045 a difference of 556 not the claimed 111.
Why is this not being picked up and questioned?
Lives are at risk and we’re getting fed a bunch of lies.

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Nicedayforawedding Mon 01-Jun-20 17:29:55

Yes I wondered if the figures are being fiddled to fit the government agenda. Could they be adding on the care homes?

changeoflife Mon 01-Jun-20 17:34:33

I noticed this too on the Worldometer site. One day last week new infections was listed as 4000+ then the next time I looked it had changed to >2000. I think the government will massage the numbers now to support their agenda and justify lifting restrictions in the way that they have. Let's face it they can't afford another controversy at the moment!!

WwMILd Mon 01-Jun-20 17:38:13

Does this help?

Plbrookes Mon 01-Jun-20 17:39:10

These are deaths which happened on an earlier date but are only reported now (eg if a test result was not known at the time of death). The adjutment to cumulative totals is described in the slide pack for the briefings published on the website. Did you consider finding out the reason for the apparent anomaly before accusing people of lying?

FrancesV83 Mon 01-Jun-20 17:40:13

@changeoflife I noticed that too.
It’s very worrying especially as kids are going back to school and people are going back to work.

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PatriciaHolm Mon 01-Jun-20 17:40:21

Today's total includes an extra correction of 445 to include pillar 2 tested deaths (i.e from commercial labs) in the PHE numbers. Extra deaths are from the period 24 April - 31 May..

The 4K to 2k testing anomaly was because of the addition of 2k "old" positive tests, again spread over about a month - so the total positives needed to increase but the daily number was 2k:

It's the downside of using multiple data sources from multiple places (deaths in the community, in hospitals, in care homes, tests from multiple places).

SirVixofVixHall Mon 01-Jun-20 17:41:05

Delays in death reporting, due to weekends, or simply a general delay. The figures are amended as the deaths are added on.

FrancesV83 Mon 01-Jun-20 17:42:10

@Plbrookes He is lying, the difference between yesterday’s figures and today’s is not 111 it’s 556.

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FrancesV83 Mon 01-Jun-20 17:42:43

The deaths reported now are all settings as they have been for some time.

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FrancesV83 Mon 01-Jun-20 17:43:57

The daily figures aren’t amended. The ones that cover Saturday and Sunday are always lower as they are not recorded as often on a weekend.

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Mintjulia Mon 01-Jun-20 17:45:24

I think it’s due to the weekend. 111 died today, but the others are catch-up figures due to slow reporting of deaths over the weekend.

I don’t think even Bojo would make such a blatant error without an arguable reason.

FrancesV83 Mon 01-Jun-20 17:45:32

@PatriciaHolm How do you know this? If this is the case should we not be told?

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Weedsnseeds1 Mon 01-Jun-20 17:49:34

We are told. As. PP said, the information is on the gov. UK website, freely available to all.

Plbrookes Mon 01-Jun-20 17:50:21

The 111 is the number of deaths reported in the last 24 hours. The 556 is the difference in the cumulative totals after 'late' reports for deaths on other days are added. Why not read the link that WwMILd posted above?

CuriousaboutSamphire Mon 01-Jun-20 17:51:21

We are told. Almost every day. And there is/was a note about it on the daily graph. The ONS data carries an explanation in more depth.

That anomaly has been there from the start.

You just didn't notice, or listen to the many explanations.

FrancesV83 Mon 01-Jun-20 17:55:08

We should know the total number of deaths in the briefings especially considering he’s trying to make out it’s the lowest figure since the end of March when that’s not true

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Nicedayforawedding Mon 01-Jun-20 17:56:06

Yes, it seems a bit sly. I would never have known this unless it was pointed out to me.

PatriciaHolm Mon 01-Jun-20 17:57:40

It's on the PHE website, which is updated every day.

There are a number of anomalies in the daily data, due to multiple things - multiple sources, data delays thanks to public holidays and weekends, multiple jurisdictions. If the daily briefing were to try explain them all every day it would turn into Stats R Us, and probably serve to confuse more.

For example, the official number added by PHE for deaths in the community/care homes today is technically negative....(-5).

FrancesV83 Mon 01-Jun-20 18:00:28

I understand that the early figures were just deaths in hospitals and figures now are all settings but the daily difference doesn’t add up and should be explained.

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CuriousaboutSamphire Mon 01-Jun-20 18:01:26

It is the lowest daily reported number.

Even with the addition of deaths in the community, care homes now also being reported daily.

The slow data has always been slow.

The rate of change is an accurately reflect on if the change, the reduction in daily death rates.

That you didn't appreciate this doesn't mean anyone lied!

CuriousaboutSamphire Mon 01-Jun-20 18:03:27

For the last time, without swearing...

It is explained, has been explained, in many places, every day.

That you don't know that is your lack of knowledge. Not a government lie.

FrancesV83 Mon 01-Jun-20 18:05:01

They’ve just mentioned it on sky news.

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PatriciaHolm Mon 01-Jun-20 18:05:01

An explanation has just been issued to PA Media, and is now on the Guardian website and probably elsewhere.

Baaaahhhhh Mon 01-Jun-20 18:18:28

This has always been the case. The daily totals you see are not even deaths in the last 24 hours, they are reported deaths, which can be from weeks ago. Also, every so often an audit is done, last week some deaths were removed as they were duplicate, they had been counted by both hospital and care home.

It is not lies OP. It is just standard reporting practices. The weekly ONS data catches up with everything eventually, as they use actual death certificates rather than just "reported" deaths.

This is an interesting graph. Only for England, and only for Hospital deaths, but you can see if you zoom to 200% that many deaths reported today still go back to March and April.

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