Test and trace - verification and scammers

[WhyNotMe40]

If we are to have unknown callers ringing us to inform us of contact with a positive case - how will we know they are who they say they are, and how will they know we are the right person?
If they ask identification questions then that gives an opening for scammers to extract information from the vulnerable.
Is anyone else wondering about this?

[NELass]

We will give you a number you can call that will verify us.

[Unshriven]

I doubt they'll want your bank details.

The most they'll say is please stay home for a fortnight.

[JimMaxwellantheshippingforcast]

Yes I've heard that before too

[mondaynoon]

How will they get our contact details?

[NELass]

We get the contact details from the person that’s been tested positive

[WhyNotMe40]

I think that should be publicised then as the vulnerable could be persuaded to give their date of birth and NI number which is all that is needed for identity fraud.

[WhyNotMe40]

Thanks NELass

[antisocialdistance]

If someone called me to say I've been in touch with a positive case, I would expect them to be primarily supplying me with information rather than requesting it from me. What sort of scam are you imagining they might run?

FWIW, test and trace has been running in my country for over two months now and as far as I know there are no reports of scams being associated with it.

[NELass]

All we ask is if you’ve had any symptoms, what they were and if you’ve been in contact with anyone for a period of time. We will then ask you for their details.

[NELass]

Details will only be name, phone number and email if you have it so we can then contact them to inform them.

[mondaynoon]

I don't really understand - If I had the details for the people I had been in contact with wouldn't I just contact them myself?

[ScreamingKid]

What is the point of this? You're not going to know all the people you've been in contact with, and as someone else said you would just tell people yourself if you know them well enough to have their details. What about GDPR ? I have a job where I see clients face to face, I'm not handing over their details.

[QueenofmyPrinces]

I don't really understand - If I had the details for the people I had been in contact with wouldn't I just contact them myself?

Exactly - I find it baffling.

Plus, what about the potential to lie? What’s to stop me telling the T&T person that I’ve been in touch with x, y and z, when I haven’t just so they could have two weeks off work?

My sister would love two paid weeks off work....

There’s so many possibilities for the service to be abused.

[TeddyIsaHe]

@mondaynoon

I don't really understand - If I had the details for the people I had been in contact with wouldn't I just contact them myself?

Exactly! Why wouldn’t I just tell them myself? The only people I see without PPE for more than 15 mins in close proximity is dp and dd.

[antisocialdistance]

*I don't really understand - If I had the details for the people I had been in contact with wouldn't I just contact them myself?"

Or you might be feeling like crap in bed (or in hospital on a ventilator) and want to rest and get better rather than rapidly ringing, emailing and texting all the people you've been in contact with. Or you might not have access to their details (eg you might have been in a hair salon where three other customers qualify as close contacts).

Are you really the sort of person who would tell the T&T person that your sister is a close contact so she can have two weeks off work? Or is that just a hypothetical scenario that you imagine someone else might do, but not really you as you are actually not that much of a dickhead? The good news is that most people are actually not such dickheads as to do that.

[antisocialdistance]

Exactly! Why wouldn’t I just tell them myself? The only people I see without PPE for more than 15 mins in close proximity is dp and dd.

Well they won't have much of a job to do in your case, will they, but many people do not have such tiny circles of contact. And once you go back out into the world and start living something more akin to normally – which is what people want to do, right? – circles of contact widen massively.

[QueenofmyPrinces]

Or you might not have access to their details (eg you might have been in a hair salon where three other customers qualify as close contacts).

So how do I pass on their details to the T&T service then?

Or do they just ring the hair salon and ask for the contact details of all the people who were in the salon with me at the same time? Surely there some data protection issues in that?

And I guess my hairdresser would have to go off too.

And what if, when she returns to work, she gets contacted 3 days later and is told she’s had another contact, does she just take another 2 weeks off? And how many times is she allowed to do this?

I do see the good intention behind the system but in reality, I do wonder how many people are going to abide by it in the way it is intended.

[StrawberryJam200]

GDPR allows for information sharing for good reason - stopping a pandemic is good reason.

[nancy75]

I thought there was going to be a phone app for this, is that not happened now?

[PastMyBestBeforeDate]

There's been some clarification on the flexibility of GDPR for the purposes of the pandemic so they probably can.
Mind you SERCO got in trouble a week or two ago for cc'ing a load of T&T recruits in a mass email rather than a bcc. So maybe they will be falling foul of GDPR in many ways.

[PastMyBestBeforeDate]

@nancy75 the app's not going well. It may yet need to be rewritten before we even get to whether it was effective.

[antisocialdistance]

@QueenofmyPrinces yes, that's right. Notifying people of a public health threat is a legal reason for a government agency to request contact details.

In NZ it is now a requirement for close-contact businesses such as beauty salons, hairdressers etc to keep exact client records for this purpose. Yes, your hairdresser would have to go off work if she services a confirmed case.

Yes, it could conceivably happen to her more than once within a short time period, but it would be very bad luck if you think about the numbers. The UK had around 2000 new cases yesterday as I believe, which spread among 66 million people doesn't suggest your hairdresser is going to be bouncing back and forth from self-isolation constantly unless she works in an absolute hotbed of infections.

[NELass]

You wouldn’t tell them yourselves because you may not have known you’ve been in contact with someone who has tested positive. We are telling you that you definitely have and we need to contact the persons you’ve been in contact with to stop the spread further and potentially killing someone.

[Crosswordocelot]

Do your whole household have to isolate?
What if I was (for example) in the hairdressers and another client had symptoms so I'm contacted to self isolate. Then later that month someone in my work place has symptoms....do I have to isolate again?
Also what about public transport or supermarkets for example where it might not be possible to know (without the app)

[NoHardSell]

You're right to worry about scammers. People can be incredibly naive, especially when frightened eg told they might have corona. I bet this will be another 'in' for them. I don't see much of a way round that though.
The Sheffield version of this doesn't suggest it is going to go all that well but it probably doesn't matter too much. Just need some people to do it. A bit like lockdown.