South Korea, Channel 4 documentary

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Our government has let us down, very, very badly. This documentary shows that South Korea learned from past mistakes and our government utterly failed to do the same, or to take coronavirus seriously enough back in January and February.

When this is over, we need a public enquiry. Heads should roll. I don't have any confidence we'll get one, though.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Confirmed cases in South Korea: 10,962
Recovered: 9,695
Deaths: 259

Test and trace right from the start. No lockdown. Masks worn in public places.

[howdidwegetheremary]

Why should there be a public enquiry? Wasn’t it the Chinese government who neglected to warn other countries it had started yet another pandemic and not so so until it was too late?

If the government had immediately closed borders there would have been cries of xenophobic Brits.if they had gone into lockdown immediately they would have been laughed at due to economic damage. Truth is it was already too late and they knew it thanks to China.

What about Spain, Italy and France? They have had similar outcomes?

Could we all not be grateful the government have done their best to ensure we don’t starve?

[GrumpyHoonMain]

I wonder how South Korea traced the large segment of the population that is so poor they don’t have smart phones / go to hospital? I very much doubt they only had 10k cases - it is a country full of inequality in every part of life including health.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

South Korea had its first case before we did. At that stage it wasn't obvious it was going to be a pandemic, but the WHO was on the alert. Our government seems to have been more preoccupied with Brexit.

As I pointed out above, South Korea has not gone into lockdown - nor has it closed its borders. People arriving in South Korea go into quarantine and are closely monitored. They use rigorous track and trace methods to find people with the virus, isolate them, treat the illness and prevent it spreading. Their economy has had minimal damage and their death rate is remarkably low.

That could have been us. We had excellent disaster planning in the early years of this century. It all went to pot after the financial crash. Fell off the agenda. Pandemic planning exercise three or four years ago - all the warning signs ignored.

Thousands have died needlessly. Our frontline health care practitioners and care workers have been put at dreadful risk and it was all avoidable.

I'd say all of that warrants a public enquiry.

[LilacTree1]

I looked at Wancock’s Wikipedia page and was interested to see this

“ On 31 January 2020, COVID-19 was confirmed to have spread to the UK, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Hancock said the government was considering "some quite significant actions that would have social and economic disruption"

It underlines my view that the preference all along was to do something drastic rather than conduct proper tests and isolation.

[howdidwegetheremary]

*Thousands have died needlessly. Our frontline health care practitioners and care workers have been put at dreadful risk and it was all avoidable.•

It was avoidable if China and WHO had been honest. It was here long before declared. Damage done.

Many other countries have faced similar loss to the U.K..

[MsHeffaPiglet]

I have watched it. As stated repeatedly, South Korea's contact tracing is based on access to GPS data from phones, credit card and bank account data.

This is serious loss of privacy. Given the GDPR rules regarding access to private data, is the South Korean model of contact tracing achievable. Also factor in a significant element of UK citizens who are averse to conforming to rules, nevermind agreeing to state sanctioned access to private data.

The question was asked, 'would you surrender your privacy for safety?' The answer as demonstrated by the success of South Korea, logically should be yes. However, would it really be the same answer in the UK? Given that a much less intrusive app is being rolled out and the take up rate may struggle to reach what is needed for it to be effective, what hope do we have rolling out the South Korean version!

There are lots of things the UK could have done better, but you you have to factor in the differing behaviours, attitudes and conformity levels of each society.

[LilacTree1]

Heffa I agree it’s a serious loss of privacy.

But we made no effort to close borders or quarantine those coming returning from hotspots. Pre mobile, this would have been considered quite fair for controlling infectious disease.

[Notcontent]

It’s weird because back in February I was staring to get concerned and it seemed pretty obvious to me that the virus was going to spread and it was likely to develop into a serious situation. But no one I spoke to seemed to think it was anything to worry about. It’s as though everyone was in denial.

[MsHeffaPiglet]

@LilacTree1

I agree that quarantining those returning from hotspots early on should have been implemented. The intention to now do it at the end of the month but have exemptions for travellers from Ireland and France is ridiculous.

But that has been the main problem with most of the decisions. They are halfhearted and any sanctions for not complying are so feeble as not to be a deterrent for many.

[Quarantino]

I found this twitter thread interesting about how they took it very seriously. Not saying we should or should not have done similar here (I think the UK population would not have accepted it) but it has been effective. There's not really much point in doing half-arsed measures if they don't really reduce the infection rate.
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1258987354934538248.html

[MsHeffaPiglet]

@Notcontent

So nany people think they are invincible, believeing that serious illness or death happens to other people not them.

If they themselves are not classed as being vulnerable, or do not have vulnerable people living with them they are less likely to take care to avoid infection. A case of out of sight out of mind, particularly if they avoid all the news. Which a surprising amount of people do (even intelligent ones).

[mrbob]

Or you could look at Australia’s response for those who don’t trust South Korea’s numbers etc. Restrictions on those from hotspots then closed borders reasonably early with extremely strict 2 week quarantine coming in. Closed state borders (with 2 week quarantine coming in) No one I know has complained at all and no one is being racist or xenophobic. We don’t care what colour you are- you ain’t coming in!

We now have a tracing app which probably doesn’t work but a fair number of people have signed up. Those who don’t want to dont

[MsHeffaPiglet]

@Quarantino

Thanks for the very informative link.

The actions of the South Koreans whilst effective appear very draconian and I could not envisage how much of the regulations required to implement those kinds of actions would get through Parliament. Nevermind receive the co-operation of the public in the UK.

[bluebell34567]

the important thing i got from that program was that they dont have a very rich health system but they applied a very good model.

[LilacTree1]

“ But that has been the main problem with most of the decisions. They are halfhearted and any sanctions for not complying are so feeble as not to be a deterrent for many”

I don’t know, no one in my block could afford the fine for sitting on a bench. So many elderly here just lost their only exercise and fresh air because the police were everywhere. My mum is 82 and a mobility decline is rapid at that age.

Sensible measures, I wouldnt have objected. So far, it just feels like a campaign to victimise the poor, the vulnerable and particularly affects anyone living alone with no outdoor space.

I’ve been on the ledge twice, once talked myself down and another time a neighbour talked me down.

I’m not sure I want money wasted on a public enquiry. It’s probably just Dominic Cummings amusing himself with mind games geared towards the most vulnerable.

[LilacTree1]

“ The question was asked, 'would you surrender your privacy for safety?' The answer as demonstrated by the success of South Korea, logically should be yes”

No way. This kind of attitude demonstrates a faith in government that I think is very foolish. Plus, as a vulnerable person, I’d like to live freely before my next bout of pneumonia carries me off. I can’t see the point of being alive without freedom.

[GrumpyHoonMain]

Would I sacrifice my privacy for a virus that is less infectious / deadly than the flu or pneumonia even amongst the most at risk groups? No way.

[MsHeffaPiglet]

@LilacTree1

That's why I said '...logically, yes'. That would be the case if you are certain that the government would always be an open, liberal democracy. However, after seeing so many democracies slide into or teeter on the verge of dictatorships or autocracy, I would be loathe to enable authorities to track me more than they can now.

I'm a BAME person, so there is always a slight distrust of authorities having too much information about me. I never disclose my ethnicity, choosing to state 'I do not wish to declare' when filling in forms or providing data.

[MsHeffaPiglet]

@LilacTree1

Sorry that you have got to the stage of being on that ledge.

It is disappointing that financially and mentally vulnerable people are left to carry on as they did before, whilst so much of the job retention scheme money is being used to keep people in a very comfortable lifestyle. I wish the government had given more to those in dire need or prioritised the money differently.

[Auntlouisa]

Korea did shut the schools for a time.

[LilacTree1]

“ I'm a BAME person, so there is always a slight distrust of authorities having too much information about me. I never disclose my ethnicity, choosing to state 'I do not wish to declare' when filling in forms or providing data.”

Same here. Though even without the ethnicity factor, I’d always say, give away as little data as possible.

[LilacTree1]

Bluebell “ the important thing i got from that program was that they dont have a very rich health system but they applied a very good model.”

This is something I wonder about early treatment, we just seem to have told people to go away and not disturb the doctors. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[LondonJax]

@Auntlouisa. Schools in South Korea are still closed. They've not long started teaching on line. The schools are ready to reopen with social distancing but the recent outbreak around some nightclubs has put that back.

As for the privacy vs free movement issue. The new app for tracking over here relies on people downloading it. If there isn't enough take up then I wouldn't be surprised to see the government trying to get legislation through parliament to use GPS tracking similar to South Korea. What else could they do? Track and trace relies on tracking (it does what it says on the tin) and if you can't track you can't trace. If people refuse to download it I'm at a loss as to what the government could do apart from legislate and track us in other ways.

I thought is was interesting that our medical people modelled our response based on flu that doesn't usually involve testing
and the South Koreans modelled on MERS which does involve testing. So we stopped testing, then restarted with just the NHS workers and the South Koreans started track and trace...

[Jellybean27]

Just watched this. Made me so sad to think things could have been so different for us in the U.K.