ccorona virus isn't going away so we're all going to have to learn to live with it... wtf does this actually mean?

[Mynydd]

I've seen the above statement on so many threads advocating lifting lockdown. What does living with it actually mean?? Going back to plan A - herd immunity - and just allowing the virus to rip through society? Wearing masks and maintaining social distancing while working from home as much as possible? Chucking the kids back in school and hoping for the best?

I personally thought lock down was living with it. Can someone please tell me what you all mean with this phrase?

[WorraLiberty]

Slowly going back to work/school but with social distancing rules in place.

Lockdown isn't living with it - it's 'hiding from it', as this way of life can't be sustained until a vaccine becomes available.

[GoldenOmber]

I would say 'living with it' involves some kind of track/trace/isolate programme as the govt is currently talking about, keeping some social distancing measures (like no big events, people WFH where they can, maybe masks on public transport?), would keep the risk low but let people get out and get back to our lives while the virus is still 'out there' but under control.

[woodencoffeetable]

social distancing
(more) sensible sickness absence rules for work/school (i.e. anyone with cold symptoms should stay home)

[Thighmageddon]

To me it means we're going to have to live alongside it.

In theory we should all get it at some point but living with restricted social measures after lockdown eases, means we hopefully will not overwhelm the nhs and should have enough beds for critical patients whilst getting the economy going again.

[Grasspigeons]

I think it means letting it plod through society so as not to overwhelm services rather than rip through. I cant get my head round how you make that happen. I guess its back to wash hands, no big events, stay home with a fever or cough, local travel only, work from home where possible.

[Redolent]

No it does NOT mean we’re all going to get it. With a fatality rate of 1-2% that amounts to hundreds of thousands of deaths which the government ruled to be unacceptable.

[Mynydd]

I wholeheartedly agree that track, trace and quarantine is the only possible way of living with the virus. But we're not doing that as a society yet are we?

[Kimtendo]

Think of the kind of person who stands on the doorstep of your nearest bungalow, glaring at kids as they ride past on their skateboards and bikes, before heading back into peer through the curtains at their neighbour trimming the privat to make sure not one single leaf falls into their side of the garden. That is the kind of person that makes these 'new normal' posts. They want you to be miserable just like them.

[Mynydd]

Arghh I can't mumsnet when my son is awake, too distracting! 'We' on an individual level can't live with the virus can we. It has to come from government. And for whatever poorly thought out reasons they're not doing it yet

[user1497207191]

I wholeheartedly agree that track, trace and quarantine is the only possible way of living with the virus. But we're not doing that as a society yet are we?

Trouble is that relies on people behaving responsibly. People didn't when told to, hence the lockdown. People with symptoms still went to Cheltenham and that Liverpool match despite loads of info re Covid and clear instructions telling them to self isolate.

Even with lockdown, huge numbers of people think the rules don't apply to them and are carrying on partying, shopping daily, etc.

[cornersteps]

In theory we should all get it at some point

So the shielding and vulnerable are just washing their time staying safe as thy eh are inevitably going to die anyway?

[tenterden]

With a fatality rate of 1-2% that amounts to hundreds of thousands of deaths which the government ruled to be unacceptable.

Well the government can say it's unacceptable all they like, but it is still the likely outcome. Lockdown was to stop us all getting it at once and overwhelming NHS.

[LastTrainEast]

herd immunity wasn't a plan that we dropped, but how we live with many viruses.

In the long term most people will have either had it OR been vaccinated and those who haven't will be protected to some extent by herd immunity. (unless we can catch it more than once)

In the short term if people are exposed there are 3 options.

#1 they just get over it. That is most people.

#2 they survive with ICU treatment

#3 they die regardless (a smaller number)

If we just abandon lockdown as some idiots demand and everyone gets sick at once then we won't be able to treat all of #2 so they will die as well. Some are saying "so what if they do die? I'm bored"

Since we can't maintain a lockdown for months and we can't be sure when the vaccine will be ready we must start letting more people out to work etc, but not too much and keep them as far apart as we can.

The numbers will rise again and some people will die. We''re going to sacrifice those people in order for the country to keep running. Since we want that to be as few as possible we still want as many people staying indoors as is possible.

[LastTrainEast]

tenterde and cornersteps remember the vaccine? That's why they are shielded.

Even if we didn't get a vaccine eventually most of us would have had it so they'd have fewer to catch it from.

[Mynydd]

I think what I struggle with is the tone, as if we should all be prepared to drop 6 weeks of worry and sheltering and be prepared to jump back to it because the economy requires it of us. And if you won't do that you're not capable of risk assessment, you're shirking, unduly anxious etc etc... because we're all going to have to live with it.

[Thighmageddon]

So the shielding and vulnerable are just washing their time staying safe as thy eh are inevitably going to die anyway?

I'm high risk on two immunosuppressants and I'm overweight so you can make what you want of my comment.

[Theluggage15]

People used to have to live with many diseases, measles, diphtheria, polio etc all killers. This is what will have to happen with this one.

There may be a vaccine in a year or two or it may take several years, more likely there will be better treatments. A lockdown can only be a short term measure. The lockdown does huge damage in so many ways not least in causing many other deaths. They just don’t get the spotlight like the virus ones but are just as important. Even the WHO says countries need to be more like Sweden.

[ofwarren]

@cornersteps
So the shielding and vulnerable are just washing their time staying safe as thy eh are inevitably going to die anyway?

It pisses me off when people say 'we are all going to get it'. Like you say, what's the point in shielding if that's true? We don't all get every disease that's going around. Not everyone gets chicken pox or measles or even the flu.

[feelingverylazytoday]

In theory we should all get it at some point
Unlikely, because there is almost certainly some degree of immunity following infection, therefore herd immunity will kick in at some point. Even well below that percentage transmission can be slowed down.
Another percentage of people will have innate immunity, which is something we can't measure at this point. Things like increasing vit D levels, eating a healthy diet, low alcohol intake and plenty of sleep boost our immune system to protect us against viruses without having to produce antibodies.
Coupled with shielding very vulnerable people as much as possible and the usual measures such as handwashing, some degree of social distancing, better testing, etc, it should be possible for many people to avoid infection.

[WinterIsGone]

I think what I struggle with is the tone, as if we should all be prepared to drop 6 weeks of worry and sheltering and be prepared to jump back to it
An awful lot of people are still working now.

[LastTrainEast]

Mynydd it's not fun, but it's an emergency. Think of being in a lifeboat after a ship sinks. It's no good complaining that it's cramped is it?

"And for whatever poorly thought out reasons they're not doing it yet" not doing what yet? We have to do this just right and there's no instruction manual. What was your plan?

ofwarren most people get exposed to chicken pox or measles, but are immune because they were vaccinated or they had it before.

Some don't get exposed at all because of 'herd immunity'

[Coffeeandbeans]

@Mynydd - I agree with you.

I know that lockdown has to end soon. Govt can’t continue funding everyone to stay at home. However I’ve been told by work work that as soon as BJ says we can start opening up offices they are getting us back inASAP. I’ve not sat indoors for 6 weeks to then be told I have to sit in an office with 10 others.

[Mynydd]

Our government is who I mean when I say they. They are not testing or tracing enough people. Yes it is an emergency and difficult to make decisions etc etc but the countries with the highest death rates are surely the ones who made the wrong decisions. It's not good enough to say there is no instruction manual. The instructions were ban large events, lock down early, test test test. Our government chose not to do so. They are accountable.

I'm not complaining about being uncomfortable, I'm doing okay and counting my blessings. I'm voicing concern over are narrative that sounds a lot like get over your sofa and save the economy. I'm not sure we're there yet is all

[ofwarren]

@LastTrainEast
And won't that be what happens with this virus eventually? Enough people will have had it and/or a vaccine so that some people just won't get it?
If it was the case that everyone in the country will get the virus, then what is the point of shielding?

[Mynydd]

Exactly coffeeandbeans. Wouldn't it be a waste of all this lockdown effort to just plunge back into 'normal'. I hope most employers don't want or expect that