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A list of the systemic failings that have led us here

(82 Posts)
Tonkerbea Fri 17-Apr-20 14:01:22

Because I'm angry and bored.

I'll start with:

Why did it take so long for us to start sourcing extra ventilators?

Why was/is our capacity for testing so paltry?

Why were people discharged into care homes who were still symptomatic?

Why did Cheltenham go ahead?

OP’s posts: |
Lycidas Fri 17-Apr-20 14:04:03

Why didn’t we tell people early on that the ‘mild’ version of this illness includes pneumonia and a month long recovery?

TheVanguardSix Fri 17-Apr-20 14:08:28

Because we have a bunch of Hooray Henries running shit, is the short answer.

ZzzMarchhare Fri 17-Apr-20 14:09:42

intensive care units that are old and not fit for infectious patients without staff in ppe for hours

Pelleas Fri 17-Apr-20 14:10:59

Why did we miss out on the EU resource pooling scheme, even though we were still eligible for it as part of transition?

Why has more not been done all along to limit flights in and out of the country; and at the early stages to quarantine arrivals from high risk areas?

We had the advantage of being able to learn from China and Italy. We had the advantage of being a nation made up of islands, so battening down the hatches would have been relatively easy (instead of which we were the ones posing a risk to neighbours across our only land border on the island of Ireland) - we threw all this away.

Remember the initial advice - wash your hands and if you're over 70, don't go on a cruise? How laughable that seems now.

Pelleas Fri 17-Apr-20 14:17:40

Crufts was another thing that should have been cancelled. It was held at the NEC - look at where Birmingham is now. sad

TheCountessofFitzdotterel Fri 17-Apr-20 14:21:51

I would want to go back further and look at the fact that we allowed manufacturing industry to be run down.
We're not the only country that has a shortage of PPE, but countries that DON'T have a shortage are ones like Germany that can easily make their own.

TheVanguardSix Fri 17-Apr-20 14:29:17

I really think that, in an effort to prioritize the economy over people's lives, they just went walking straight into the shitstorm driven by the (at that point, yet-to-be mentioned) herd immunity plan... oh, and greed. Greed's always the driving force, isn't it?
I think herd immunity was initially at the heart of this bonfire of common sense before they even uttered herd immunity out loud.

Why did we miss out on the EU resource pooling scheme, even though we were still eligible for it as part of the transition?

That is the million-dollar question. Our government has SO much to answer for with this one.

Salmonpasta Fri 17-Apr-20 14:33:49

It's a virus.

I know people want someone to blame whether it be the Government or Dave next door buying a paper everyday.

But it's a virus.

Concentrate on what you can control.

FlibbertyGiblets Fri 17-Apr-20 14:35:29

I understand that re the EU pooling there was an outdated email address that the invitation was sent to. Our dear leaders forgot to update contacts with their new details, you see. (Guardian article iirc)

cathyandclare Fri 17-Apr-20 14:37:22

I'm not sure we need extra ventilators, there are many, many still not used. As intensivists have learned more about the disease they're trying to find other ways to support breathing. It's proving very, very difficult to wean people off.

I think availability of testing is the biggest problem.

TheSandman Fri 17-Apr-20 14:42:32

Concentrate on what you can control.

In the long(er) term that's the make up of the next government. After four weeks most people would, I imagine, have controlling what they CAN control under some sort of....erm... control.

Let's start concentrating on not getting ourselves into this fecking state again - because the is NO guarantee that ANOTHER virus possibly even more virulent isn't just around the corner. Next time it could be serious.

We need to start learning from systematic mistakes NOW, before the fuckwits who made them have had a chance to fudge the history, find a scapegoat and carry on like before as if nothing much had happened.

furrypesto Fri 17-Apr-20 14:47:22

Concentrate on what you can control.

That's exactly what posters on this thread are doing. They are concentrating on the elements the government could have controlled that would have reduced the spread of the virus.

I don't understand your point.

TheVanguardSix Fri 17-Apr-20 14:47:41

Allow me to fix that: But it's a virus that we could see was mushrooming from epidemic to pandemic and we were assuming, with the real-time observance of the crises in China, Iran, and Italy- the hotspots of COVID-19- that our government here at home would manage the situation better when it hit our shores. Salmonpasta, it's great because you, me, and Dave next door are ok. And you are correct in some ways. But spare a thought for the frontliners working day and night on wards where they are never free from exposure and now, they're facing the very real possibility that they won't have gowns (not to mention the rest!) by week's end. I was on an ICU ward for one week a month ago, March the 10th, with two diagnosed COVID-19 patients who were subsequently moved, pronto. The nurses and consultants did not have enough PPE and the nurses were shit scared back then. That was what? 5 weeks ago? I'd hate to see what it's like there now. So yes, we're alright Jack, me, you, and Dave. But lots of people aren't and our NHS needs more than clapping and badges. They need proactive leaders acting in their best interests.

MyHipsDontLieUnfortunately Fri 17-Apr-20 14:53:54

The arrogant 'othering' of the Chinese experience (that could never happen to us / SARS, swine flu and bird flu came to nothing / X many doe of the flu annually) - refusal to believe it, some sort of a belief that a penchant for roast beef and builder's tea conferred immunity.

Fixation on 'getting Brexit done' to the exclusion of all else - I mean, does no one one Whitehall read the news?

Annarosez Fri 17-Apr-20 14:54:41

Why did we not bring in wide-scale testing as they did in Germany?

Why did we advise people not to wear face masks for general use? (there is no reason why the government couldn't have supplied adequate PPE for the NHS by preparing ahead and simultaneously advised the public to wear face masks, as they have done in other wealthy countries).

I also agree about the EU resource pooling.

Pelleas Fri 17-Apr-20 14:57:46

Essentially, the government had insufficient resources to provide widespread testing and PPE to all. They were also reluctant to halt 'business as usual' and delayed lockdown for the sake of the economy.

But all that was dressed up as 'following the science' and 'taking the right action at the right time' rather than acknowledged as a failing.

BighouseLittlemouse Fri 17-Apr-20 14:59:32

Why did we give up on testing and tracing at community level? ( presumably linked to the above point that we couldn’t because we didn’t have the tests). From a public health management perspective that was just baffling, whatever other decisions were being made.

SummerHouse Fri 17-Apr-20 15:02:34

Early intervention. I.e. oxygen given at an early stage. If not previously possible can we do it now?

Also all those people with underlying health conditions (or family with underlying health conditions) expected to continue on the front line when perfectly healthy people sit at home supposedly doing their bit in saving lives. That's an utterly shit set up.

SorrelBlackbeak Fri 17-Apr-20 15:05:51

We gave up on testing and tracing at the community level when Nadine Dorries confirmed that she was infected. It became absolutely blatantly obvious that there were hundreds if not thousands of people at that point who were also infected and they didn't have the first clue where to start with track and trace.

Admittedly it would probably have helped a bit if the government hadn't assumed that it really was only a few towns in Italy that were infected so more people could have been referred for testing. My brother took his kids skiing just outside Milan at half term. Children developed classic very mild symptoms but were told they couldn't have it because it wasn't one of the 12 towns.

dreamingbohemian Fri 17-Apr-20 15:12:19

I agree it's vital to look at systemic failings. We could not have stopped the virus, but look at the huge differences in the death toll among different countries. A lot of that is down to response.

South Korea is roughly the same size as England (in terms of population, median age, huge capital city etc.) They have had 230 deaths in total. 230!

Agree the key is testing, and locking down earlier when it becomes clear the virus has arrived.

MyHipsDontLieUnfortunately Fri 17-Apr-20 15:18:59

Ah yes, declining to participate in collaborative procurement with Europe.

Salmonpasta Fri 17-Apr-20 15:23:49

@TheVanguardSix I am a 'frontliner'. And i'm not okay as it goes.

But we have a democratically voted government which hasn't done drastically better or drastically worse than the majority of other countries.

It's so easy to sit at home and think what you would have done with the wonderful power of hindsight when you don't have the responsibilities of an entire nation where unfortunately, money, the economy, the future and a multitude of other considerations have to come into play.

We haven't seen anything like this for a century. So mistakes and fuck ups have been made. We didn't do enough or we went too far in some areas.

Because that's the nature of something that we're going through that we 'think' we can prepare for but don't know till it happens.

Pelleas Fri 17-Apr-20 16:20:12

Schools should have closed much earlier. I believe schools in England only closed when they did because the devolved authorities of the rest of the UK had had enough and, quite rightly, forced Westminster's hand by closing them in Wales, NI and Scotland.

LilacTree1 Fri 17-Apr-20 16:25:18

Why didn’t they quarantine people coming in from hotspots?

Oh I forgot - it’s so they can quarantine everyone instead.

Why did they allow big events to go ahead?

Why did they ignore lessons from pandemic exercises?

Why do they not reports deaths from covid instead of deaths with covid?

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