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Care Home Dilemma. Dont know what to do

(66 Posts)
ilovesouthlondon Wed 01-Apr-20 21:37:00

Hi everyone.

I'm writing this because I'm desperate for advice but deep down I dont think theres anything we can do.

My grandfather is in a care home. We have tried to get the council to take his 1 bed property back and take his daughters separate attic flat back and exchange for a two bed ground floor property so that they can live together. Council dragging their feet with this however social services say he can't live alone (keeps disappearing), hence him being in the care home.

Since Corona kicked off in the UK the care home allows no visitors. We usually visit every day with his dinner, so we were concerned he would feel abandoned (he doesn't have a phone). They called a few weeks ago to say a few patients have caught corona virus, so they have isolated them and moved him to another floor. He had a temperature but managed to get better.

They called yesterday to ask if one of us could come in as he's not eating. I knew this was serious as they are not allowing any visitors in at the moment.

A family member went and was stunned that there were only 4 residents (including him) left on his floor. All the others had died. The other floors are similar. His key worker has also died from corona. We were shocked as you expect to hear these things on the news as it's still early days. I cant believe his key worker died because of no proper PPE for £8ph. I know it's not about the money but that's why we need to keep staff safe.

My grandad is very frail and would not eat the home cooked soup brought in for him. He would bearly look up.

The dilemma is what to do? We cant visit him. They wont test him. We cant take him out as we dont know if he has it and social services wont allow it unless we have an appropriate property to bring him to. I feel that if we leave him there we are sealing his fate. Dont know what to do or how to find a way around this to save him and keep everyone safe.

OP’s posts: |
AutumnRose1 Wed 01-Apr-20 21:40:48

Do they legally have the right to prevent you removing him and can he stay with you? Would you want that.

Could he stay with his daughter in his original flat? Visits are permitted if you are caring for a relative.

I’m sorry to hear of this.

ilovesouthlondon Wed 01-Apr-20 22:37:23

Thanks for responding.

I'm not sure of the legalities but social services made it clear that moving in with him in his one bed flat was not suitable for the long term and that hes a danger to himself. I have too many stairs to get to my property and I'm in a one bed with a child, so same problem.

They are not allowing any visitors. The staff do the care work. You cannot visit to care as the care home is on lock down to prevent the spread of the virus. This is why I was shocked when we were invited in.

I think if we could persuade them to have him tested to prove that hes negative we would have a stronger argument to remove him for his own sake despite the lack of space at his property. His daughter is prepared to live there with him staying in the living room. He has a ground floor flat.

OP’s posts: |
OnTheEdgeOfTheNight Wed 01-Apr-20 22:43:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AutumnRose1 Wed 01-Apr-20 22:44:25

If his daughter is prepared to live with him, I’d push for that. He will probably be safer and more contented and more inclined to eat.

With regards to legalities, you could post on the legal board and ask for help? Or contact Citizens Advice.

The main thread in Elderly Parents might be able to advise, I will link this thread to them if you don’t mind. There’s a lot of knowledge about care situations. I imagine he’d have to self isolate with his daughter but hopefully that will be fine.

I think you have a strong argument that he will be safer in that way.

I’ll pop your thread link on the EP board to alert them.

ChipotleBlessing Wed 01-Apr-20 22:46:38

Does he have capacity to make decisions for himself? If so, social services do not get to determine where he lives. How long is it since he was first exposed? If it’s weeks since the first cases he should be out of the quarantine period.

ilovesouthlondon Wed 01-Apr-20 23:08:08

Hi everyone and thanks for your responses. Also thank you for forwarding this to the legal board (didnt know there was one on here). I tried to call the care home but the phone just rings out. I'm going to try and call his social worker tomorrow and suggest that we move him.

I dont think he can make decisions for himself as he kept going to old places he used to live in when he was young, trying to force his way in with a key. He doesn't understand that he does not live there anymore. He also got on a train and ended up confused in another city. The police found him and brought him home (we have our details on his person).

Let's see what the legal position is and what social services say. It's also important for him to be tested otherwise we will end up spreading it. Cant believe his key worker has gone. We are all in shock at how many residents have died so quickly.

Thanks again everyone and be safe.

OP’s posts: |
AutumnRose1 Wed 01-Apr-20 23:56:18

Posted this link on other boards

I hope there can be a way to get this sorted OP

I can only guess the care home will have concerns around their duty of care but it sounds like he’ll be exposed to less viral load and better cared for elsewhere.

ilovesouthlondon Wed 01-Apr-20 23:58:01

I agree. Let's see. I just feel sick to my stomach. Thanks again.

OP’s posts: |
esjee Thu 02-Apr-20 00:11:03

I'm sorry to hear about this, it sounds terrible and I hope you can work something out. My mum is in a care home and they are just completely woefully unprepared for this

TheMidnightSpecial Thu 02-Apr-20 00:33:46

This is so awful. So sorry to hear this xx

jimmyhill Thu 02-Apr-20 01:13:51

Unless he's being held under section then surely he can be moved?

You may find that this has changed due to the Coronavirus legislation. Definitely seek legal advice.

HathorX Thu 02-Apr-20 05:21:04

Very sorry for your difficult situation. The care home local to us has appealed for local families to send letters and pictures from the kids nearby as the old folk are a but depressed. It’s a bleak situation.

It does sound like he would be unable to live happily outside the home, would it be fair on his daughter to have to cope with him if he is inclined to try and get out and wander off? My granddad got like that, and it was a nightmare for my parents when they lived with him, he barely slept at night and was up and about causing trouble.

It sounds like you have thought of everything but I agree there isn’t much you can do. I’m sure the care home is frantically busy deep-cleaning, coping with staff off sick, and trying to keep the residents company since they can’t have visitors.

If he is still able to use a phone is there a way you could get him one? If not then I’m really sorry but your hands are tied. He has been exposed to the virus and absolutely shouldn’t leave for two weeks anyway.

So sorry for your situation.

Inkpaperstars Thu 02-Apr-20 06:09:32

This is so shocking. I am so sorry your grandfather and your whole family are in this terrible position.

There was a nursing home in New Jersey where pretty much everyone had it, not quite but nearly, and last I heard they were closing it down and moving individual residents to different care homes where they could isolate but which would be safer and better equipped to cope. I think you should contact your MP about this and local age concern etc.
This can't be right for anyone in that home including staff.

So awful for you, I really hope you can get some help and advice.

Alanna1 Thu 02-Apr-20 06:24:19

I’d get a lawyer involved and get urgent advice and an application out. You probably want someone who does social care and court of protection work. In the meantime call the charities who work with elderly people for advice. He or you might be eligible for legal aid.

Alanna1 Thu 02-Apr-20 06:29:27

You could try these:

HennyPenny4 Thu 02-Apr-20 07:11:09

Why would you be allowed in to take him out.
We are not allowed into the care home to visit DF.

I can see this probably is not best for your DF but the Care Home has rules for a reason. Are they allowed to bend them. Possibly but the decision maker, to let you in, could be held responsible for more cases of CV brought in by you.

AutumnRose1 Thu 02-Apr-20 10:33:35

” Possibly but the decision maker, to let you in, could be held responsible for more cases of CV brought in by you.”

Well, they asked OP to go in.

And getting grandad out might mean a staff member does it so OP wouldn’t have to go in again.

I don’t think it’s acceptable for anyone, let alone the elderly, to be left in such a position when there’s an alternative.

VivaLeBeaver Thu 02-Apr-20 12:15:37

How many people in the home have actually died? You say there’s 4 on his floor many would there normally be? I’d be very worried about him staying there but I can see why the “authorities” wouldn’t want him leaving.

ilovesouthlondon Thu 02-Apr-20 18:11:50

Hi everyone,

Thank you so much for all your responses. There are around 15/20 rooms per floor.

I called the care home early this morning and told them about my concerns. The lady I spoke to said "well none of the people who died were tested, so we dont know if the died of corona virus ". I then said "you've lost so many residents and staff in a matter of weeks, this is corona". She quietly said "yes". I could hear the fear in her voice. She told me that the manager is in a conference call but she'll get him to call me once he's finished. I've not had that call back.

I'm watching the live briefing from Downing Street and it's clear that he won't get a test for now which is probably why nobody called me back.

Also got in touch with his social worker. She says that no movement between homes is allowed whilst theres an pandemic but she will talk to her manager and come back to us...still waiting for that too.

I'm coming to the realisation that we may not see him again and only God knows what's going through his mind. I'm going to try to call tomorrow and speak to him.

I can see no way to get him out of this situation at the moment and its heartbreaking. We feel totally powerless to do anything. Cant visit to make him feel better or stand outside and wave. This is just desperate.

OP’s posts: |
Greysparkles Thu 02-Apr-20 18:17:26

The lady I spoke to said "well none of the people who died were tested, so we dont know if the died of corona virus ". I then said "you've lost so many residents and staff in a matter of weeks, this is corona". She quietly said "yes"

Why were none of the people who died taken to hospital. Corona makes it so you cannot breathe. That would and should have been very apparent to the carers who should of got them medical care, and once in hospital they would've got tested.

VivaLeBeaver Thu 02-Apr-20 18:20:05

That’s shocking. If they all died in the home they won’t even be included in the official figures.

AutumnRose1 Thu 02-Apr-20 18:28:10

I can see the issue with not knowing. If some of us have it and don’t know, it is possible that some care home residents have it, don’t notice feeling a bit crap, and if they die without symptoms, there’d be no need to call an ambulance etc.

It’s like that thing about pneumonia being called “old man’s friend”. When I had it, I had horrendous symptoms but if you don’t have the cough and fever, it might kill you without anyone knowing you had it.

The emergency powers are alarming but I think that you should be able to take him home without a test. I would keep pushing tbh.

Inkpaperstars Thu 02-Apr-20 19:18:48

I agree to keep pushing. Getting legal advice also.
This can't be right. I would consider contacting the press.

sadmumbecauseofson Thu 02-Apr-20 19:22:31

Keep on at social services. Ask the home to contact you with a daily update, and what PPE they are wearing etc.

Contact your MP, get on to the council, keep banging the doors and shouting the loudest and hopefully someone will take notice x

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