Narcissistic ex is "shielding" should he see dd

[kipperthedog]

Hello all, hope everyone is keeping safe and well. My narc ex is extremely difficult and is using the current circumstances to be even more so. He's putting demands on me (and therefore dd) to protect his own health and making this time extremely stressful. His demands should go without saying such as distancing etc but he always makes out I'm a bad parent and wants it in writing that I agree to these things. Having spoken to her this morning, he says he's had a text to say he has to stay in for 12 weeks. As a chronic asthmatic I assume this means he has been told to "shield". My question to you is should dd go to his next week for 10 days as planned? He has no outside space so she will be cooped indoors apart from daily exercise - which if he adheres to the advice he won't be taking. As far as I can see he should be isolating from her.

Any advice welcome thanks

[Fartintheloft]

Not in those circumstances no. It’s not safe for him and not right for your DD. I would do Skype instead.

[kipperthedog]

I should add that we have a court order in place that dd goes to him sun to tues and half the holidays which is the time she is due to go to his next week. He will NEVER agree to not see her so I feel at a loss to know what to do. He told her on FaceTime they would still be going for walks.They live in the country side. However I have a large garden in which we are spending probably 60-70% of our time in...

[iVampire]

No, she should not go,

I am in the shield group and the advice includes the requirement to isolate within your household too / keeping 2m away, minimising time in shared areas etc

Unless other household members have isolated to the same extent, which of course your DD cannot do in time for a visit next week (quarantine is 14 days?)

The advice in the letter is to keep in touch using technology

[kipperthedog]

@Fartintheloft thanks for your reply, that's what I think also but he's so difficult. I'm scared of him basically and his emotional abuse. I've never said that out loud before.

[iVampire]

‘ He told her on FaceTime they would still be going for walks’

Not permitted in ‘shield’ 12 week isolation. Nor are any visitors to the house other than essential carers and HCPs

[kipperthedog]

@iVampire thanks for the advice, he said to het he got a text - did you get a text? I assume that must be what it is.. he said to her he is going a long walk today

[kipperthedog]

How can I be sure the text was to shield. All he said was he's not allowed to go out for 12 weeks.. that must be it mustn't it?

[iVampire]

Yes, I got a text, and the letter arrived in the post the next day

If you are getting the ‘exceptionally vulnerable’ daily morale —sapping— boosting texts it includes such cheery advice as keeping a hospital bag packed at all times

(but nothing actually useful LHS how to persuade a supermarket to grant you their much-vaunted ‘priority’ access to delivery slots)

[iVampire]

Yes. The only official 12 week (minimum) advice I have ever heard of is to the 1.5m exceptionally vulnerable ‘shield’ group

[MurrayTheMonk]

I've got a similarly annoying ex-I get that he wants to see the DD's off course-but he lives with his elderly parent and I just don't think it's a good idea. It's his Mum though so I guess their decision as per your ex and his own Health.
I'm a key worker and the girls will be at his house more whilst I work if anything but I can't do much more than voice concerns (which have been scoffed at).

Fully expecting my ex to use this as a platform to demand Changes to our custody agreement as well, which we have already altered once to suit him. In fact that's stressing me out more than anything else about this situation. I just can't go through all that again.

[RB68]

No she shouldn't go. Its for his benefit as he needs to be shielding, no visits, no walks, no leaving house for shopping. Offer facetime and or skype. Agree the times and you ring him. Block all messages and phones etc in between

[Fartintheloft]

There is a helpline for shielding people. You could maybe ring that to get advice. Or even call/email 111? All you need to know really is that you won’t be prosecuted for going against your court order.

It’s against all of the advice, which says use technology. So you are doing the right thing, but I have been there myself and I know it’s not that easy to speak (or even) to Narcissistic people. Having the backing legally so to speak would give you the weight you need.

[kipperthedog]

Thanks all.

That's a good idea re 111. I have messaged a solicitor friend for advice as well but not heard back yet. I think the legal advice I saw on another thread is that court orders should be adhered to to keep childs routines as far as possible..but this is different I think. I just fear his reaction should I try and broach it because he's expert on coming across as reasonable but is vile and twisted and makes everything my fault.

[Michelleoftheresistance]

He's in charge of how he wants this to go? If he's shielding for 12 weeks then surely that means he's asking you to help protect him by you having dd full time and dd seeing him via facetime/phone/emails until this is over. Hard on all three of you, but these are the times. If he wants to continue as normal with visits and walks then he isn't shielding, and this has no impact on you and dd so why bother telling you he's shielding? One or the other, which is it?

[Quartz2208]

He's in charge of how he wants this to go? If he's shielding for 12 weeks then surely that means he's asking you to help protect him by you having dd full time and dd seeing him via facetime/phone/emails until this is over. Hard on all three of you, but these are the times. If he wants to continue as normal with visits and walks then he isn't shielding, and this has no impact on you and dd so why bother telling you he's shielding? One or the other, which is it?

Totally this he cant have it both ways.

I think if he is shielding there is no way your DD should go there for him

[Michelleoftheresistance]

It's his decision; the only way it's relevant to you is if he wants you to do something different to normal re contact. Don't take on the mental load of this or try and encourage him to shield, you're not responsible for him.

[copycopypaste]

No your dd shouldn't go. As you are doing, get it in writing from him that he's been told to self isolate, or shield for 12 weeks, then I'd also seek advice from a solicitor.

He shouldn't he going out for walks or having anyone coming in or out of the house unless absolutely necessary

[kipperthedog]

yes I see what you mean. He hasn't actually told me he is shielding but I overheard him tell dd he had a text and he has to stay in for 12 weeks. From what I've read it's advice and he doesn't have to take it. However he has written a long list of demands saying I have to protect her in order to protect him, and has said I have to confirm his points such as her (half) brother and sister have to social distance while with me and at their dads and that I won't let dd touch door handles or see her friends etc.. the way he has put it is threatening.

He would never ask me to have her more as possession has always been what he wants. He has no regard or trust for me as a person or parent. He isn't normal.

I assume he isn't going to shield as far as she goes

[kipperthedog]

Plus even if he wasn't shielding, is it fair for her to go for 10 days when he has no outdoor space but at home with me she has a large garden to play in? It doesn't seem right to me.

[LittleLittleLittle]

Since the letters have come out the legal position has changed. If someone is shielding in one of the households then contact shouldn't continue as normal.

[LittleLittleLittle]

Oh and this may be useful for someone else - www.judiciary.uk/announcements/coronavirus-crisis-guidance-on-compliance-with-family-court-child-arrangement-orders/

[IncognitoIsMyFavouriteWord]

OP

I've had the text.

It's not really guidance at all.

It's instructions.

If he's had the text then wants to flout it that's his choice. He's putting himself at very high risk if he does though.

Would he use it to stop you from collecting DD at the end of the 10 days?

[UYScuti]

He is trying to use this crisis to his advantage to get more ground and more control, I would be trying to use it to my advantage and distance myself as much as possible from him.
Keep a very careful detailed log of everything that happens, you'll get lots of material that you can use against him in the future.
Generally I would say humour him to keep him quiet but also be clever, be strategic, and hopefully you can come out of this crisis in a better position🤞🙂

[UYScuti]

You say that you're scared of him remember now that he will be very scared about his own health, you can use that to your advantage.
Think about who's really in a strong position and who's really in a weak position here

[StrawberryJam200]

Yes the latest judiciary guidance talks about situations where one household may have vulnerabilities and also that one parent may be more concerned than the other, to document everything and when we’re “back to normal” people can take issues to the family courts if they wish (subject to usual rules, costs, proofs etc.) I’m in a similar -ish position to you and am making sure that I follow this advice as far as possible.

Of course abusive exes will seek to use this situation as a new hammer to batter you with (metaphorically). I imagine Women’s Aid is getting a lot of emails/calls about it at the moment; you might like to try contacting them or another DV charity.

You don’t say how old your dd is? How will she feel about not staying with her dad?