Missed Miscarriage and then Chemical Pregnancy soon after

[Catconfusion]

Hi everyone, so last week I got my bfp and was very excited though surprised as straight after a missed miscarriage at 10 weeks without a period. I however had lots of pregnancy symptoms. The midwife reassured me no more likely to have another loss because of ERPC surgery and to not worry. I also had good line progressions on my FRER tests so it felt like all was well.

Unfortunately I’ve had severe cramping over the weekend so I tested again just to check progression and my FRER is now barely positive. I’m just waiting for the bleeding to start so another loss albeit very early. I’d be over 4 weeks so there should be a stronger line if still pregnant.

I just wondered has anyone else had surgery for a missed miscarriage and then had an early loss (sorry hate the word chemical) soon after? My doctor and midwife both didn’t think it would make another miscarriage likely but can’t help think it has.

I recovered very quickly from the surgery but I’ve had cramping since just after ovulating which has progressively got worse. I’d hoped when I got the bfp it was implantation as it seemed to ramp up at that point. Now I’m assuming it was something to do with why the embryo didn’t stick.

The pain is now very sharp and uncomfortable. I don’t normally get strong period pains which makes me think it’s linked to my situation. Thanks in advance for any insight.

[Mistymeow]

Really sorry to hear this. I have had two ERPCs and both times was told I could try again as soon as the bleeding has stopped. The doctors told me that I’m at no increased risk of a further miscarriage if I fell pregnant straight away. I really hope you don’t have any bleeding and what you are experiencing is implantation pain. Please keep an eye on your pain and look out for any ectopic symptoms (shoulder tip pain, sharp pain on one side). I would call your GP tomorrow and explain your concerns but if you are in a lot of pain now I would call 111 (just in case of ectopic) as they may advise a&e. Take care x

[Michellebops]

Sorry for your miscarriage. Did you have a negative test at all afterwards?

I tested positive every week for 9 weeks are my surgery for a mmc. I thought it was a new pregnancy but definitely wasn't. I had to go for blood tests every 2 days until negative and I finally got a period.

[Catconfusion]

Hi @mistymeow, thank you so much for replying. I remember you from one of the other threads. I'm so sorry for your losses and the fact you've had to go through two MMCs. This is bad enough so I can't imagine.

That's the thing, the doctors say no increased risk. I'm pretty sure this must be a very early loss and not implantation as the test today was barely positive. The one on Tuesday was obvious, the one on Thursday was even brighter. My symptoms have gone too, apart from severe cramping. The fact the cramping has been there since ovulation makes me wonder if still healing after ERPC.

I was a little worried about ectopic but its unilateral pain and I'd have thought I'd have more hcg if it was in my tube. I have a phone call booked already with the doc tomorrow so unless it gets worse I'll see what she says. I've taken pain killers and its easing a bit so hopefully just worse than normal AF due to ERPC last month and this early pregnancy loss. XX

[Catconfusion]

Thanks for replying @Michellebops. I got a negative on FRER a couple of weeks after the ERPC and ovulated a week later. I use Ovusense so can confirm my cycle kicked in as normal. Had lovely high temps. Also had lots of pregnancy symptoms before I got the BFP so definitely a new conception. The midwife agreed too.

I'm sorry you had to go through a MMC and took so long to recover. It must have been so frustrating. Mine seemed to mess me up emotionally more than anything. Saying that this bean probably didn't stick because I was less recovered physically than I thought I was. XX

[Michellebops]

@Catconfusion that's good you got your negative ( total irony saying that) and I'm sorry this bean hasn't stuck.
On a positive side at least you know your body is doing what it should be and you can get pregnant again.

We started ttc again at New Year and now on cycle 4 without a hint of anything.

My due date was end of April so I'm hoping this month is our month.

Emotionally it's tough and yet you go through the motions and get on with it and then something knocks you back.

Sending love and hugs and happy to chat anytime x

[Mistymeow]

@catconfusion thanks, it’s such a hard time but as @michellebops says your body is doing what it should which is a very promising sign. As you know early pregnancy loss is sadly common but it’s unlikely anything to do with your ERPC. In fact a consultant told me an embryo was more likely to implant after surgery due to a fresh lining. So glad you have a phone call with your GP tomorrow. But please do keep an eye on that pain and don’t hesitate to go to a&e if it becomes really strong.

[Catconfusion]

@Michellebops don't get me wrong we feel very blessed that the two cycles we've not been careful we've conceived. The first time we were on honeymoon but really not trying. I'm hoping not flukes as I had polycystic ovaries when younger and wasn't ovulating regulating. On the mmc scan they found the cysts are gone. I was shocked but explains why the first three cycles of temping showed strong ovulation (I used Ovusense in the run up to ditching contraception), something I've wasn't even sure was happening normally.

I really hope this month is your month too. It sounds like you needed time for your body to heal so hopefully now it'll happen. Xx

[Catconfusion]

@Mistymeow I think I read something about the embryo implanting more easily after ERPC. I do wonder in my case though if there's something up with my lining. After ovulation my pelvis hurt and the cramps have been there ever since with some sharp pains. Now they are really sharp. That's another reason I don't think ectopic as it's not sudden onset of pain but pain building up before bfp, it gradually increased over the last two weeks. Maybe the lining building up disturbed things. I'll definitely go to hospital if it worsens.

I've worried for a while before the mmc if I had problems with my lining. My period only lasts a day, ever since I had a stint with the copper coil a few years back. My luteal phase is however long at 17 days and lab results after ERPC showed optimum lining thickness to support a pregnancy. I'd got to 10 weeks so I guess my body was doing something right. The doc has said she's not worried as for some ladies a days worth of bleeding can be a sign of healthy lining. I do wonder however if ERPC made it thinner.

As common as it is early pregnancy loss sucks as I'm sure you'll agree. I have very few friends who have gone through this and the ones who have weren't in a good place I.e. partying and not knowing they were pregnant or eating disorders. I'm not saying those situations aren't traumatic but when you've done everything sensibly: got married/serious relationship, moved into a family home, taken supplements and prepared for pregnancy, then you have a loss it's tough.

We've literally spent the first four months of our marriage dealing with pregnancy related illness (hypermesis) and miscarriage. It's exhausting!

Sorry for the rant. Xx

[Michellebops]

Rant away. We understand completely.

Definitely phone your gp tomorrow and they should arrange for beta hcg blood tests and these should be repeated every couple of days to check the hcg is rinsing which is the best way to confirm if the pregnancy is sticking.

Reading other posts on other threads a faint line after bfp isn't always a bad thing.

Let us know how you get on xx

[Catconfusion]

@Michellebops I'm not sure they'll do the blood tests. It was a strong obvious positive a few days ago and fairly strong at 9 dpo. Now you can barely see it. That along with the cramps I would be shocked it still pregnant. As I'm sure you know FRERs detect tiny amounts of hcg so to get a very faint only just visible if you squint 14 dpo seems very unlikely, especially after getting more solid positives. Just wonder if doing the bloods would cause more heartache. I have to go to hospital for bloods as I have tiny veins and it's right near the EPU. Not sure if I can face it at the moment. If the GP thinks it's worth it I'll do it but seems unlikely a viable pregnancy xx

[Michellebops]

I have my fingers crossed for you xx

[Catconfusion]

Hello ladies, so my doctor thinks it was a lining issue and that my body needs longer to recover. She doesn't think anything wrong with my lining even though my period lasts a day. She's suggested two cycles. It's really upset me because we weren't warned of this. Feel now like it's put us back. My cycles are also long and irregular so could be more like three months. I turn 40 in June and just know I'll feel really sad if not pregnant by then.

Anyone know of how I can improve the lining so we can try again sooner?

Xx

[Michellebops]

Sorry to read this. Was thinking about you this morning.

I just remembered something, I went to gp at one point about 8 weeks after mmc as I was getting recurring utis from when I was first pregnant. They did a full check of my uterus and said I had a hematoma (aka bruising) most likely from the surgery. And said I had to heal before falling pregnant again.

I'm going to follow in case someone responds though you might be better starting a new thread which might catch others attention.

I'm 42 in 2 weeks and plan to give up come the summer if I'm not pregnant.
Xxx

[Catconfusion]

That's really interesting @Michellebops and could be a possibility. I've wondered if I've got a slight uti and tbh I feel bruised. The GP doesn't even want to see me to examine me. She's said she thinks the pain I'm in is AF coming. But my pelvis has been sore since ovulation. It got worse after the bfp. I just assumed it was the lining but bruising after ERPC makes sense. GP really was no help tbh.

I think you're right it might be worth starting another post. Maybe more specifically after ERPC.

I'm sorry to hear you've got to the point of maybe giving up. It's such a soul destroying process and I can understand. Hopefully you'll have some luck before then. I've got my fingered crossed for you! Xx

[Michellebops]

Did you do a test today? I forgot to ask.

Just thinking if you're still getting a positive and also pains would it do any harm in phoning epu and saying you're pregnant and unsure how far along but more than say 4 weeks and asking them if they'll see you based on your recent history.

Worth a shot if the gp is useless xx

[Catconfusion]

No I didn't do a test. GP said not any point if the ones at the weekend were much weaker than the first bfp.

My DH just said about calling EPU. It's a really good idea. I got on really well with one of the nurses there so will be interested to hear what she thinks.

I'm not feeling up to calling today as I'm very teary but will try in the morning. Thanks for the suggestion. xx

[Michellebops]

I understand completely.

Personally I would do a test as if it is gone I'd want to know and start trying to come to terms with it. But that's me and we're all different and handle our emotions in our own way.

Have a good rest tonight and see how you are tomorrow.

No one can tell you what to do, phone epu if and when you feel up to it.

I know you don't like the term chemical however if you manage to get to epu and they confirm the pregnancy has ended then it will be documented as a mc. Then if any issues in the future you have 2 recorded mcs. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

My friend had 6 miscarriages. 5 early and 1 at 23 weeks. She now has 2 kids but I seriously don't know how she got up each day.

Sending lots of love xx

[Catconfusion]

I have spent so much on FRERS and not sure if I have a standard test but guess I could do one in the morning if I do. The two tests at the weekend however showed me whatever was there was fading. The last one yesterday was barely positive.

I'll call EPU in the morning and see what they say. I've just been very teary today and want to feel stronger when I call. I'm a little worried no bleeding yet and very crampy so maybe they can reassure me about that.

The GP said she has recorded the loss as a very early miscarriage due to thin lining during ERPC recovery. She also said I wouldn't be classed as recurrent as no evidence it wasn't a viable embryo so probably wouldn't count as one of the three you need to be seen at the recurrent miscarriage clinic.

Your poor friend. Sounds like she had a hellish time. I always thought early ones would be a lot easier. Now I know its actually very painful to get the physical feelings of pregnancy and feel it fade away, even if fleeting.

Thank you for your support. I'll let you know how it goes. xx

[Michellebops]

Take your time and do everything when you feel ready.

I'll be thinking of you xx

[Mistymeow]

I must say I find it really odd that your GP has told you it’s your lining without any evidence (no scan to confirm size of lining) and all this over the phone. You have a positive pregnancy test and no bleeding so surely it’s not a confirmed early loss yet? I know the faint test doesn’t look good but I really think you need your HCG levels checked and the suggestion of calling EPU is a really good idea. I’m not a medical professional but if I were in your shoes I wouldn’t be satisfied with this response.

[Catconfusion]

Thanks @Michellebops!

@Mistymeow thanks for saying that. I'm really not satisfied with it. She said to call on Wednesday if I haven't started bleeding. The cramps have eased a bit but my pelvis area feels very sore. As you say it's not looking good but I've not been given any means of confirming the loss. She said a chromosomal loss would happen later but I thought chemical pregnancies were often due to chromosomal issues. She wouldn't record it as a reoccurring miscarriage because it is linked to the previous one and my recovering lining. I was basically told if we hadn't tested too early we wouldn't have even known. The thing is I had a positive test at 14 dpo albeit slight so I would have probably kept testing with nothing to compare it with. I'll keep you posted on what happens.

Thanks for your support! Xx

[Mistymeow]

Sorry you’re going through this. There is a lot of confusion over when to try again after a loss. I was told I could try again straight away and waiting for a period is for dating purposes. See what the EPU say but I really don’t think your GP should be recording a loss when your pregnancy test is still positive. I would also question her not recording it as a separate loss and get a second opinion (perhaps the miscarriage association can help, as they will have up to date advice?). Hope you’re doing ok today x

[Catconfusion]

Thanks @Mistymeow the bleeding has started now and test this morning negative. I'm definitely getting a second opinion about waiting two cycles. That's 8-12 weeks for us as my cycles are long. I've never heard of the lining taking that long to recover. Also didn't think a very early loss meant you couldn't just try again. I'll see what EPU say. Miscarriage association is a good shout too. I'll keep you posted. Xx

[Michellebops]

@Catconfusion sorry for you.

Hope you feel a bit better today xx

[Mistymeow]

Really sorry @catconfusion please take care of yourself. Hopefully your EPU can provide a bit more reassurance. Also Tommy’s charity is another that has a helpline.