late ovulation/short luteal phase

[waiting4bambino]

Hi all
I've been ttc now since Dec, and since March have been temping and using opk's. After 2 complete charts, i notice that I get a + on the opk's on day 17 and 18, so i guess i ovulate on days 19 and 20 maybe, which seems to be quite late compared to some.
What worries me is that i have read that if you have a short luteal phase, then even if the egg gets fertilised, then there will be nothing for it to implant in, as the womb lining is getting ready to be shed, in order for your period.
Has anyone gone to the doctors because of this?
Has anyone got pregnant in spite of this?! Maybe I'm just a hypochondriac, but i'm asking you ladies before i go off to the docs! Thanks

[weepootleflump]

so if you OV on day 19, how long is your LP at the moment?

[waiting4bambino]

Approximately 9 days, do you think that's too short?

[Twiglett]

positive on OPK means you will ovulate 24-48 hours after

it is possible you have a luteal phase defect (under 10 days can be problematic)

high dosage vit B6 (100-200mg) daily could help

or alternatively I had low dosage clomid (I ovulated day 23 leaving an 8 day LP) .. 50mg x 5 days .. and conceived first cycle (under consultant at ACU)

good luck

[waiting4bambino]

Thanks Twiglett, I will try the vits but don't hold out much hope for any other alternative help, as I know if I visit my docs, they literally will send me away because of the length of time i have been ttc and also I'm under 35 etc....
Shame we can't get Clomid on ebay! Thanks again

[lemonaid]

You generally want 10 days or more, if possible. Mine was 9-10 days and I got it up to 11 with high dose B6. But oddly the one thing that really sorted out my LP was my first miscarriage -- after that I had nice solid 12-13 day LPs. Not to be recommended as an approach, but it shows what the body can do.

(Ahem... you could always lie about how long you've been TTC. Unless of course they filled a pill prescription for you the month before you started)

[coggy]

I have the same problem.....OV on CD18/19 of a 26/27 day cycle.

Had clomid and fell pg but only knew about my short LP after this....I assume I had it before as it took nearly 5 years ttc my DS.

Currently on IUI as another three months of clomid haven't done anything.
If the IUI doesn't work I shall definitely be taking the high dose vit B to see if it improves.

Hope you get sorted out.
X

[buttercupbabe]

I have exactly the same situation. I ov on day 18/19 of a 25/26 day cycle. I noticed it early on and because I could show the gp 2 months of charts she did a blood test 7 days after ov. The test showed low progesterone and so she referred me. I'm actually seeing the dr this afternoon for the first time. By the way I also have a ds who is nearly two - so lp definately changes. I also exagerrated the lenght of time we'd been ttc dc 2. I'd definately get down to the gp and ask for a test - it's not a lot of work for them so hopefuly they will comply Good luck and I'll let you know what the gynae says this afternoon. Feeling a bit nervous.......

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

OPK's are beset with problems anyway; the kits work on the misleading principles that an LH surge is immediately followed by ovulation (not true) and that women only have one such surge every month (again not true and you had two such surges).

I would ask what your periods are like anyway, if they are regular in nature you are more likely to be ovulating than not. However, even normally fertile women have the occasional anovulatory cycle.

Some GP and gynaes do not think that LPD exists. A blood test can be done to see what your hormone levels are like; this would give a fully accurate picture. I would ask for a blood test to be done early and later in your cycle (the tests normally done in this regard are a day three which measures LH and FSH and a day 21 which measures progesterone). It may be that your progesterone level is on the low side.

Clomid might help but its not normally given to women unless there is proof you are not ovulating. Also you should ideally be monitored whilst on it as its powerful stuff and without monitoring you would have no way of knowing whether its working or not.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Causes of Luteal Phase Defect
The three main causes of luteal phase defect include poor follicle production, premature demise of the corpus luteum, and failure of the uterine lining to respond to normal levels of progesterone. These problems occur at different times during the cycle but can also be found in conjunction with each other.

1. Poor follicle production occurs in the first half of the cycle. In this case, the woman may not produce a normal level of FSH, or her ovaries do not respond strongly to the FSH, leading to inadequate follicle development. Because the follicle ultimately becomes the corpus luteum, poor follicle formation leads to poor corpus luteum quality. In turn, a poor corpus luteum will produce inadequate progesterone, causing the uterine lining to be adequately prepared for the implantation of a fertilized embryo. Ultimately progesterone levels may drop early and menses will arrive sooner than expected resulting in luteal phase defect.
   
   
2. Premature failure of the corpus luteum can occur even when the initial quality of the follicle/corpus luteum is adequate. In some women the corpus luteum sometimes does not persist as long as it should. Here, initial progesterone levels at five to seven days past ovulation may be low; even if they are adequate, the levels drop precipitously soon thereafter, again leading to early onset of menses and hence a luteal phase defect.
   
   
3. Failure of the uterine lining to respond can occur even in the presence of adequate follicle development and a corpus luteum that persists for the appropriate length of time. In this condition, the uterine lining does not respond to normal levels of progesterone. Therefore, if an embryo arrives and tries to implant in the uterus, the uterine lining will not be adequately prepared, and the implantation will most likely fail.

[waiting4bambino]

Attila, thanks for all your help! I can't believe you've been a cashier (I checked out your profile as I thought you must be some kind of fertility specialist!!)
Whilst it's heartening to read that most of you have conceived successfully at various times, I'm shocked to read it took such a long time for some of you....
Lemonaid, sorry to hear of your miscarriage, I hope you have gone on to have successful pregnancies since then. (I was tempted to lie to the docs!! But yes, I had gone for a pill check the month before and i happily asked for 6 months supply! And here I am, trying to achieve the very thing i have been trying to avoid for the last 12 years!!!)
Coggy - what's IUI if you don't mind me asking? I assume its intra-uterine something...?
Buttercupbabe, how did your appt go, did you achieve anything?
Having had poor experiences in the past when I've gone to my gp's, I can't really expect that they're going to be amazing just because I'm a little paranoid and impatient about the reason i'm not pregnant yet! I just don't want to go there and sound as if I'm being really anal about it all when i havent been trying for that long on the scale of things.
thanks again for all your advice, you've given me some knowledge that you just don't find in the ttc books. xx

[buttercupbabe]

waiting4bambino. I thought I'd update you on what the gynae said seeeing as you and I have a similar length luteal phase. He has prescribed me clomid and I'm going to have regular blood tests and scans to ensure that all is going as planned. I would seriously recommend that you ask the gp for a 7 days after ov blood test as that's how I got my referral. My progesterone level was 26 and they like it to be above 30. I wish you the best of luck but take heart in something that I read the other day saying that a short luteal phase is something that can easily be lengthened.

[tribpot]

Interesting I've been keeping an eye on the time between ovulation pain and period (I think this is what you are talking about, I know nothing of luteal phases and whatnot) as it does seem that recently it's shifted so I ovulate only a week before my period.

Will be bearing this in mind - good luck to all.

[waiting4bambino]

Good luck with the Clomid then Buttercupbabe, let me know how you get on. Will definitely be going to docs next month, I'm actually waiting for my period now - its late by a day - just my body playing cruel mind games with me i think! I can feel it on the way.....
Tribpot - are you using ovulation kits or taking your temps at all? How do you know when you've ovulated - just by the pains?! I get a few twinges, but i'm never really sure if its ov pains or wind!!!
I'm also going to check out those vitamin B6 tablets that have been mentioned on this thread - out of interest i checked out my Sanatogen Pronatal vits that i take each night and they have like 2.5 mg per tablet! Didnt think it would be that low! Good luck to you all, keep me updated, it would be encouraging to hear of a positive result!

[coggy]

waiting4......yes IUI is intra-uterine insemination.
I have jabs twice daily at the beginning of my cycle and sevearl monitoring scans and then insemination at the right timw.
I've had two full cycles so far (obviously with no luck yet) and one abandoned one because nothing was happening .
Two more to go................

[tribpot]

Waiting - I conceived ds using the "oh crap, it feels like someone's stabbed me in the side" method to detect when I was ovulating, but it hasn't been as reliable since then. Will be getting a kit this month.

[tribpot]

Just to return to this thread - I did get a kit, and also had crippling pains (wouldn't you know it). Period was a day or so late and I had my hopes up .. but no. I am almost convinced that I was pregnant (sort of) as I felt like total crap for days on end.

So this time the luteal phase was 11 days, out of a 32 day cycle, but this was compensating for the odd early arrival of the previous period in my view (I think it arrived early so I could be in agony for the Mile for Maude, to be quite honest!)

So - we are off to the endocrinologist next month anyway for dh so I guess I'll ask whether his lowered testosterone is likely to be a problem (it's not significantly low), whack up the B6 and I guess think about going to the GP after that.

All very depressing.

[waiting4bambino]

Sorry you're feeling down Tribpot, we're in the same boat - I've been testing this month with the opks', got the surge on days 17 (i think) and definite positive on day 18, so that indicates i should be ovulating possibly day 20-21 etc, and i usually have a 28-30 day cycle....
I actually went to the docs last week, explained length of time ttc (7 months), he said what i thought he'd say (go away!) in a polite way, and explained that they would only investigate after we'd been trying for 2 years!!!! He did offer me the 21 day progesterone test which i said yes to, only to find when i went to book the appt with the nurse, the receptionist could only offer me yesterday, which was day 18! So the blood taken defeats the object of the 21 day test! Hopefully as the results may not be what's expected, then they will call me back again.
Also annoyed because af is due on the day we go on hols! Remind me a bit about yourself Tribpot, how long have you been ttc? What is an endocrinologist, if you don't mind me asking?
Also, be careful taking the B6 - i looked around the chemists for it in a mega dose and couldnt find it anywhere, so i decided to look up side effects of it online, only to find that if you take it in large doses, you can lose feeling in your arms and legs! This will return apparently when you stop taking them! Let me know what happens anyway!
I've decided anyway, that if there is no result after 12 months, i am going to go and see a private consultant... I'll have to start saving!

[tribpot]

Waiting4 - sorry to hear you are still in the same boat. Hope you get some joy from the test, two years is a heck of a long time to wait. When you research luteal phase defect online it sounds like "hey ho, pop into Boots, buy a box of Clomid and you're sorted".

My dh has a number of health problems that make it difficult for us to ttc, if you see what I mean. He is being seen by an endocrinologist (hormone doctor) because he took massive quantities of liquid morphine over an extended period of time and this can have a major effect on your hormonal system. His testosterone levels are under par, but not badly so, but hey ho, since we have access to a consultant I might as well ask.

We haven't been actively ttc for very long, but I've been monitoring my cycle for a while, as my ovulation pain used to be very regular and now I'm only getting it every three months or so. And always late in the cycle.

I know that by the standard of most ttc ladies I don't have much to complain about as we have ds and he was conceived on the first try. We expected it to be nightmarishly difficult because of dh's health problems so this was a bit like "what the hell?!?!". It sounds like this time we may struggle more, and our problems aren't confined to just knowing the right day to try, as well as the usual ' find a time when ds is sleeping' thing is ensuring that dh isn't on one of his meds that means he's completely impotent and also that he has had enough rest, and also that he has time to take the 'little blue pill' (if you know what I mean). Etc.

[waiting4bambino]

Gosh Tribpot, i feel daft for moaning now i hear of all the factors affecting you and your dh. It must be so hard for you...
Is the overall health of your dh bad, or is he a lot older than you, do you mind me asking?
I guess as you've already got one dc that at least you know its possible. My dh is 6 years older than me and was married before, however no children, so this is completely new to us...

[tribpot]

Don't feel daft for moaning, I feel daft for moaning! Dh is 18 months older than me (he's 37). His overall health is bad, he suffers with chronic pain and fatigue but we get by. We just kinda need conception to be easy, if you know what I mean, as arranging a 'conception moment' is a major logistical achievement.

How old is your dh? Do you think that might be a factor? I am conscious of doctors telling me to naff off (sure they would) based on my dh's health history but the evidence does seem quite conclusive re: the luteal phase. I don't understand why you have to demonstrate it's the same over two years before they'll do anything about it.

[waiting4bambino]

{smile] Hi Tribpot, thanks for replying. My dh is 34, in overall good health, likes a little drink quite often, which i guess is the norm these days, but apart from that he is fit. I guess the 2 year wait is to save the nhs some money! As most people will go onto conceive during that time, and any investigations then would be a waste of money. Anyway, if nothing happens by one year, i would consider going private, i don't think you can put a price on your health...
Hi Anniemac, tbh I can't be bothered with the hassle of changing docs, it was such a palaver getting in the one i'm with now! They lost my details 4 times and i had to keep registering as a new patient! I'm hoping when i get pg that they will actually come to recognise me! I just hate the receptionists though, they're only about 12 and have been trained not to give you an appt when you want one! I'll get the results to my blood test on Tues so we'll have to see what happens then....

[BandhaAid]

Hello everyone. My cycles vary a bit but for the last three cycles they have been 27 days long. Last month I think I ov'd on day 18 and this month, it looks like I ov'd on day 17, so my luteal phase seems to be 9 or 10 days long. Am totally worried what this will mean for me. Is it even possible for an egg to implant one or two days before a period is coming??

I did conceive before, with my son, but I assume my luteal phase was longer back then.

[Ploppie4]

I’ve not read everything sorry. Go to your GP and ask for a day 21 ovulation blood test to check your ovulation is ok. I had similar to you and my eggs weren’t quite mature enough but it was easily resolved with clomid tablets.

[Ploppie4]

Book another day 21 test on day 21. However 3 days out isn’t massive and will still give some indication