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Conception

Soya Isoflavones anyone?

15 replies

WeeWillyWinkieFromEccles · 14/06/2017 13:22

Hi all,

Brief background: currently ttc baby #2, daughter is 5yrs old. I had a mmc in November 2013. Had a copper coil in for a year from June 2015 to 2016 as we decided we were going to stick with one child, then we thought we'd give it another shot. So now we have been ttc for a year with no luck. Very frustrating as I caught with my daughter very quickly. But of course that was six years ago, I am now 36 and feel like time is against me. I have fairly short cycles, approx 24-25 days and ovulation tests have suggested I don't ovulate until days 17/18, which leaves me with a very short luteal phase. I have been using a Clearblue Advance monitor for my most recent cycle, and got a 'high' reading every day for well over a week, with no peak, which suggests I may not always be ovulating.

I have been reading up and came across soya isoflavones, which seem to be regarded as 'nature's clomid', so have bought some to try this cycle (period started today. I understand you take them for a few days at the beginning of your cycle to kick start ovulation, so will probably start taking them in a couple of days.

I was just looking for any advice or experiences of people having tried these supplements and either good or bad results!

Thank you :)

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WeeWillyWinkieFromEccles · 14/06/2017 16:28

Afternoon bump...

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physicskate · 14/06/2017 18:06

The first cycle I used them, I fell pregnant. My cycles are quite regular but a bit on the longer side (generally 33-35 days ish). But then it was a chemical... tried it the next two cycles and didn't notice a difference...

You might want to look at agnus castus or vit b6 first as these are known to increase luteal phase...

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Catmum26 · 14/06/2017 20:07

I'd be careful taking SI's if you already ovulate. I think they are more used for people who don't ovulate at all and are trying to get their cycles back on track. I read that if you take them when you already ovulate you could risk messing up your cycle. Sometimes we don't ovulate every month it doesn't necessarily mean anything is wrong. I have started soya isos this cycle as I haven't ovulated in 8 months. I know I'm not being very helpful but just be aware they could mess your cycles up!

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BurningGubbins · 14/06/2017 20:55

I took them when I was in a similar position to you, reasonably regular though shortish cycle, clear signs of ovulation, but I was basically desperate. It made my cycle even shorter. So I abandoned after 1 cycle and went for maca instead, which gave me palpitations and chest pains (which stopped v quickly when I stopped it). DH started taking it though, and really liked how he felt, more alert etc.
Neither worked for us, but they do work for some, just do your homework about side effects.
Good luck!

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KittyVonCatsington · 14/06/2017 21:16

I got very lucky with them-I have a gorgeous 2 year old DD because of them, after TTC unsuccessfully for 11 cycles and two spontaneous MCs. I had been BBT charting for 5 cycles prior to taking it and found that my temps were very high at the start of my cycle still and I wouldn't get oestrogen surges until about CD20 or more and therefore LH surge was delayed. I did ovulate most cycles as in two of the cycles I was getting pregnant but due to poor oestrogen, my progesterone was very slow to kick in (according to the BBT charting) and seemed to result in early losses.

I'd read that Clomid was sometimes prescribed if progesterone wasn't very strong in the latter half of a cycle but there was nothing wrong found on scans. Instead of Progesterone suppositories, the idea was that a strong oestrogen production would result in a strong Progesterone 'takeover'. Soy Isos work in the same way (which is why we will all probably take them during the menopause anyway!)

It won't actually do anything if you don't ovulate at all. It will however bring forward late ovulation to a better 14 day average and sometimes make it stronger. It won't do much if you already ovulate fine around those cycle days anyway. SIs won't work as a miracle cure for all cycle issues but hey, if it doesn't work and messes up your cycles, stop taking them and you will go back to normal next cycle anyway.
I do understand the hell that is TTC and your desire to try anything. Good luck!

I wrote this a couple of years ago and have pasted it again, if it's helpful. It is a summary of my research.
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Soya Isoflavones are derived from soya beans. They have been dubbed “the natural Clomid,”
As they work in pretty much an identical manner.

^Just like Clomid; Soya Isoflavones work by tricking your body into thinking its low on oestrogen. Your body then kick starts production of FSH (Follicle-stimulating hormone) followed by LH (Luteinizing hormone) Which are both necessary to release Healthy Eggs during ovulation.
FSH is released at the start of the menstrual cycle; it stimulates the growth of an immature egg into a fully matured egg. When the egg has matured your body then releases a surge of LH. LH is the hormone that tells the ovary to release the egg.^


WHEN?
^You take Soy Isoflavones, like Clomid, on either CD 1-5 , 2-6, 3-7 , 4-8 or 5-9.
If you take soy Isoflavones during the later time bracket, for example CD5-9, you shall strengthen the egg that has already started growing producing a healthier egg. The earlier in your cycle you take It, the higher your chance of releasing multiple eggs but these eggs will not be as mature as the eggs grown from taking Soya later.
A lot of women will choose the middle cycle (3 -7) allowing time for a strong and healthy egg to develop without erasing the chance of a second egg being developed and released.^

1-5 = you produce more eggs, and ovulate sooner, with a stronger ovulation.

2-6 = you produce more eggs that usual, but not as many as taking it 1-5. Eggs may be more mature, and ovulation will be slightly more strong than 1-5.

3-7 = The best of both worlds, a few more eggs, and all eggs will be strong & mature, and ovulation will be alot stronger than 1-5.

4-8 = No more eggs will be produced, but the ones already there, will be matured alot more than usual, and ovulation will be very strong. Ovulation may only be brought forward a teeny bit.

5-9 = You'll have one very mature strong egg, from the ones you already produced on your own. Ovulation will either happen when it usually does, or a few days later, but your egg will be of great quality.

DOSE?
^The dose is really down to you but you should always use the lowest amount that works for you.
With Clomid the starting dose is 100mg. Soya Isoflavones are said to be half the strength of Clomid, so it makes sense for the starting dose to be 100mg.
The trouble with 100mg of soya is that the capsules tend to come as 40mg. So you have a choice of starting at 80mg.^
Some women change the dose on different days. So they may start at 120mg for the first 3 days then give an extra boost for the last 2 days with 160mg.

As I have said though, use the lowest dose possible for yourself. If you ovulate using 120mg/day stick to that for a few cycles. GIVE IT A CHANCE. It is said that it takes 3months to get the full benefits of what you are taking. NEVER EXCEED 200mg/day.

OTHER BENEFITS?
The following potential health benefits are attributed to Isoflavones:
Reduce heart disease risk
^Protect against prostate problems
improve bone health^
Reduce cancer risk

SIDE EFFECTS?
As with any medication, taking Soya Isoflavones may cause side effects such as:
Nausea
Headaches
Dizziness
Hot flushes
Night sweats
Cramping
Diarrhoea
Lack of fertile cm
Thrush
Obviously the higher the dose you take the higher your chance of experiencing side effects.

DO NOT TAKE SOYA ISOFLAVONES WITHOUT CONSULTING A DOCTOR IF YOU HAVE ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
Breast cancer, hepatic disease, prostate cancer, kidney disease, taking hormone treatments, thyroid disease, and allergies to soy, peanuts or other legumes.
Soy Isoflavones should not be taken while breastfeeding or pregnant.
Soy Isoflavones may interact with the following medications; androstenedione, antibiotics, clomiphene, DHEA, contraceptives and other female hormones, finasteride, raloxifene, red clover, tamoxifen, testosterone and other male hormones, thyroid hormones, and toremifene.^
^NOTE: Just like Clomid, Soya Isoflavones may not help some women at all!
Although research carried out on FF has shown that 77% of women taking Soya Isoflavones on the stated days at the stated doses, got there BFP on their first cycle taking them.^

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WeeWillyWinkieFromEccles · 14/06/2017 22:39

Ah wow, thank you so much for all the replies.

I have been taking agnus castus, b6, zinc and folic acid for months now. I'm starting to rattle.

A lot to think about, thank you again.

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KittyVonCatsington · 15/06/2017 06:31

Don't take Agnus Castus at the same time as Soy Isoflavones, whatever you do!

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KittyVonCatsington · 15/06/2017 06:38

Sorry-should explain. Agnus Castus and Soy Isoflavones do the exact opposite of each other. If you are taking Agnus Castus, chances are you don't need Soy Isoflavones.

I would really recommend finding out more about your own cycle. There is no point taking either AC or SI if you don't actually need them.

How long is your Luteal Phase?

Are you actually ovulating and when are you (don't just rely on OPKs for this as they can't confirm if you ovulate-I recommend BBT charting your temp for a couple of cycles)
How long are your cycles?

Only take SI if you are low on oestrogen at the start of every cycle which causes long cycles and late ovulation.

Agnus Castus is useful if you have too much oestrogen and your cycles are short (especially short Luteal Phases) and early ovulation.


Don't just take supplements without checking your own body first.

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WeeWillyWinkieFromEccles · 15/06/2017 10:31

I generally track using ov tests and checking cervix position, cervical mucus etc. I should do temp as well but I don't sleep very well generally and am often woken in the night by a small child so I don't regularly take my temperature in the right way for it to be reliable.

I had a doctors appointment a few months ago to get checked over. Had some initial bloods done which showed elevated prolactin levels, but not the day 7/21 tests they normally do. The doctor said she'd be happy to refer me on for any help we'd be eligible for (obviously somewhat limited once you already have a child which is fair enough). All we'd need to do is for my husband to provide a sperm sample so they could tick off that box, but he's not done anything about going to do that.

Going by the tests I've been doing, I seem to have an lh surge around day 17/18 and then an 8 day luteal phase. Ideally I need to bring my ovulation forward to day 14 at least, to give me a 10 day luteal. My cycles are only 24/25 days long.

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WeeWillyWinkieFromEccles · 15/06/2017 10:32

I've been tracking my cycle for a year now.

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KittyVonCatsington · 15/06/2017 20:32

Ouch. That Luteal Phase is short. You poor thing! Was it the same when you had your first DC?

You don't need to bring your ovulation forward by much so I'd consider taking Soya Isoflavones then, CD 2-6 myself.
Just stop taking the Agnus Castus that cycle so they don't cancel each other out. Good luck!!

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WeeWillyWinkieFromEccles · 16/06/2017 11:24

Thank you! No I don't think it was this short before. I'm sure I had pretty regular 28 day cycles. I didn't really get into the detail of endless tracking back then as I got pregnant our second month of trying! The pregnancy I lost was also quick to catch.

Today is cd3 so am going to do 3-7. No agnus castus this month, thank you. Will see how I get on :)

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boatrace30 · 17/06/2017 11:11

Very interested by this. My cycle ranges from 30-40 days, I ovulate between cd22-32 and luteal phase is always around 8 or 9 days. TTC #2 for ten months now (8 cycles). I have pcos but I am using opks and temping and I'm sure I ovulate I just suspect egg quality is poor and therefor progesterone is low.
Agnus castus and B50 complex have had no effect at all. Are SIs worth a go do you think?

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WeeWillyWinkieFromEccles · 22/06/2017 07:19

Hi @boatrace30! Personally I would give them a go. I've taken 100mg on cd 3-7 this month. They work like clomid in that they can help bring on an earlier or stronger ovulation. Clomid is used to try to help fertility due to pcos so I'd say give it a try.

An update from me:
Today is cd8 and I just got a high reading on my CB monitor. Last cycle I didn't get a high until cd12... fingers crossed for a peak in the next few days Smile

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Rae444 · 20/01/2020 15:56

@WeeWillyWinkieFromEccles
I know this hasnt been posted on in ages but I have simular issues to what you mentioned here, how did you get on with Soya?

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