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40+ and TTC? Join the club...

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cloudjumper Wed 24-Sep-14 13:32:15

To continue the support for everyone 40 and over who is or wants ttc. Lots of hand-holding and understanding, we're all together in the uphill struggle.

10000Fireflies Wed 04-Mar-15 22:56:29

Chewy oh my. Your little one is up till 11pm? Although sounds much like yours energy wise (but a bit less balletic), 10pm or 1030pm seems to be the limit, though those nights usually see me crawling into bed at 1am as I've fallen asleep with him on the floor. Grim. Yes, when exactly are you supposed to get on with the housework!

So sorry about AF. It's not fair.

JassS well you are firing me up a bit about SI. Would you mind linking to the forum you found please? It's all sounding very good for you. I am also somewhat in awe by the knowledge you have about TTC and pregnancy.

Battery running low on laptop and it's bedtime now. Will be attempting to nonchalantly buy some FRER's tomorrow if no AF.

Night all.

10000Fireflies Wed 04-Mar-15 23:01:02

I cross-posted with a couple of you. Sorry about the BFN Gum. Here's hoping it's wrong.

reni1 Wed 04-Mar-15 23:17:37

Oh sorry about the bfn, gum, only just registered. Do you always get ov pain? I get it now I am ttc, I wonder if I just ignored it before.

Fridgedooropen Thu 05-Mar-15 00:37:55

reni I've never had ov pain before but last month I did, and also wondered whether I had just become super aware and noticed it when I wouldn't have done before. Nothing this month, but I'm sceptical that I have ovulated at all this time. Plus it's now CD16 and there's been no DTD for a week as DH has been ill with a chest infection and is coughing & wheezing. So I am pretty much writing off this month, although I might try for a late go in the spirit of optimism, as DS was conceived when technically it should have been way too late in the cycle.

Has anyone found that when they've been stressed their ovulation is delayed? Just wondering about that as I had a huge amount of work to do early this cycle and it's barely left me time or energy for anything else.

Gum Hmm about the FR. Seems odd that the other test and all symptoms are pointing the opposite way. Let's hope you get resolution of some kind anyway soon.

reni1 Thu 05-Mar-15 10:43:55

I have discovered a new level of dashed hopes; seems I did not ovulate this month sad. A new thing to worry about every month now! The signs were so good, +opk for 2 days, ewcm, ovulation pain (ha! if only). CD 14 now, temps still down and normally ov 11-12. I can now sulk until the end of af, giving me 15 days of feeling down this month. Rant over.

reni1 Thu 05-Mar-15 10:49:03

And we dtd at 6, 8, 10, 11, 13 so was very pleased with our efforts, alas to no avail.

cloudjumper Thu 05-Mar-15 12:27:24

gum Awww, so sorry it was a false hope.

jass Keeping fingers crossed for you!

reni Looking at your chart, there is still a possibility that you ovulated yesterday (CD13)! But you won't know until a few more days, if your temp is on the way up.
If it's any consolation, I had something very similar last month! Barely got a cover line at all (FF only reluctantly added the red cross at 6DPO, I think because it didn't know what else to do with my chart!), and no real temp rise, no idea what was going on. I blame the stinking cold, messing with my basal temp before ov

jassS Thu 05-Mar-15 12:30:49

Gum, so sorry about the dashed hopes......

Reni, you are so right soy is mostly anecdotal evidence. That is why I have also not kept the links to forums I have browsed, sorry Fireflies, if you google pregnant or ttc w soy isoflavones or successful pg over 40 and these things, they come up and Iread them, but they are no way scientific evidence. I was lured by the fact that it was quite common according to women testifying to try for long time and then get pg first or second attempt with soy. I also hesitated rather long, but sicne I kept losing my pregnacies, knew I have hormonal imbalancees, have tried w agnus castus vitamine B etc and still lost my pregnancies, I felt nothing to lose. Decided to try max 2 cycles with them. Fell on first. Which, as I stress, could with me have happened anyway. Did it help me to avoid 21DPo beta dip? I do not know really. But something did. After 14 or so times when it happened more or less the same way always, unless the loss was already earlier chem. I have yet to see the heartbeat of course, so maybe I still will lose it, it is and remains a high possibility.

Other people here have not my precise picture, so as I said, everybody to their own and I do not want to start a soy craze.

reni1 Thu 05-Mar-15 12:46:10

Cloud or anyone in the know, if the temperature does not rise, that means definitely no ovulation that month, right? +opk=poss ov, temp up=def ov?

Thanks, JassS. Maybe lack of estrogen early in the cycle was what stopped you keeping the pregs in the past? Somebody really ought to study this in a well controlled trial.

cloudjumper Thu 05-Mar-15 13:17:13

reni I've asked myself that exact question last month... The answer - I don't know! Both OPKs and the temps are results of changes in hormone levels, so I reckon which is the one more 'crucial' for ovulation, LH or progesterone? Which one to believe more? Tricky one... Wonder if there might be some info on the FF site somewhere.
To make things more confusing, I sometimes wonder if my thermometer is actually taking correct readings. Sigh. Why can't these things be simple and straightforward?!

jassS Thu 05-Mar-15 18:11:14

I know nothing of temping, but I think like with everything else, it cannot be exact science. Lh needs to go up to the level where you release egg, some women get really dark opks, some get very light but both ovulate. My last tahenhome baby was conceived in a cycle when I had for one day a line on opk which was half the strength of the control. And gone next day. I also had dtd last time that cycle 48 h before that pitiful line, so was quite astonished that I got pg. I travelled away from the sperm source and was quite sure our last attwmpt before me taking the plane was far too early.

Yes, Reni, I wonder whether it did. Estrogen and progesteron, as I understand, are in balance. If one is low, the other one is low quite often as well, because they work in balance. So it is poss that boosting estrogen did in itself boost progesterone, too. I have been tested for progesterone and found that I managed to ovulate even when my proge level day 21ish remained below 10. But maybe it was not enough to sustain pg. On the other hand, I have been trying eith proge supplementation from ovulation, and achieved several bfps that way, non-sticking kind all of them.

reni1 Fri 06-Mar-15 12:30:52

Cloud you were right, temperature up this morning, yay! Of course ovulating on cd14 of a 24 day cycle is bad news, isn't it? Doesn't leave much time for implantation, is the luteal phase length fixed ie could my cycle be a bit longer this time? I need to get a life, will start posting the numbers straight from the thermometer soon.

How are you today, gum? Calm and hopeful everyone (especially JassS) and don't forget the supplements!

jassS Fri 06-Mar-15 14:52:19

LH is not fixed but has an upper limit, 14, for some reason. Pls do not worry, indeed it can just be a longer cycle.

I am otherwise doing oK, i.e. I still havenot seen a drop of blood or bfown stain anywhere, my breasts are occasionally tender and I have a major bloat, but the bloat may be because I am eating like crazy. I am home with my sick 5yo son and my fridge and cupboards get methodically lowded inside me. Even if i do not know whether this baby has a heartbeat it certainly has a huge appetite. I tend to overeat when I have time to do so and with no sports for more or less 2 weeksnow I have already gained 2 kg and hoping binge eating is not bad for baby.

ICallHimGerald Fri 06-Mar-15 21:23:22

jass every day I look on here hoping things are still progressing. So pleased to read your update.

gum how are you?

DrDiva Fri 06-Mar-15 22:04:01

jass that sounds very promising!

gum so sorry to hear the roller coaster for you. How are you?

Gumblossom Fri 06-Mar-15 23:25:28

Hi everyone. I am fine,thanks for asking, but yesterday was a tough day. I was irritable from the moment I awoke. It all makes sense now as AF arrived last night. So, 15 days past O pain, which probably means I ovulated the day after the O pain. Which makes sense, AF arriving 14 dpo. I was trying to play it cool by not temping, but all it does is causes confusion and stupid mindless hope that I might actually get pregnant! sad

I still have the same desire (for a THB) and despite knowing that my case is pretty well hopeless, I am not able to completely give up hope. I suppose as long as I keep getting AF (pretty regularly) I still have a tiny glimmer of hope. Anyway, I am going to take red clover isoflavones this month - the same way as you do with Soy. I am guessing all isoflavones are equal? But that's just a guess and I will need to consult Dr google. I really have nothing to lose as I am pretty sure my estrogen is low. I will finally catch up with my female Doc in a week or so, and may ask her to check my hormone levels. I guess it can't hurt.

Gosh, yesterday was a tough day! I am a high school teacher and I had a full 6 period day (no breaks) - and on a Friday, no less. I started the day with double year 7's. Oh boy! This is the first year that western Australia has had year 7's in High school. It's been a bit of a learning curve. They are so young, and so gosh-darn-it needy! I am used to students who are independent. There is far too much mothering required. I do enough of it at home. So, needless to say, it was a tough gig whilst feeling cranking and pre-menstrual! But the worst was a complaint from a parent whose son we took on the arts festival trip last week. She was upset that we took the students to an art gallery that had nudity in the paintings (I know, I know, how excruciatingly narrow-minded).These students were all 16,17 and 18 years old. The students were warned that they may find some images confronting, and they did not have to go upstairs, into a separate gallery, to view the paintings. However, their son did, and they are upset that the teachers didn't stop him from viewing the images! Argh! But if that isn't bad enough, the student in question asked me,"why did you take us to see disgusting things?" My response was, "I didn't find it disgusting, and I don't think it hurts to broaden student's horizons, that's the whole point of the trip". The upset parent said that I have "undermined" the student's values. But she has it completely wrong, I never once said his (and his parent's) weird, narrow, based on their Christian ideals, views were narrow (despite thinking it). I was very annoyed by it,and have made it clear to my head of learning area. The stupid mother and child didn't even thank me or my colleagues for taking their highly strung, anxious son (he has aspergers) on a 4 day trip to see some amazing plays, installations and art! We looked after 42 kids, 24/7 for 4 days and 3 nights, and that's the thanks we get.
angry angry angry

But enough about that!

Jass, I am so pleased that things are progressing for you. It really is wonderful.

It is Saturday morning here and the sun is shining brightly. I am planning on a double class at the gym (I haven't been for a while what with being away and feeling unwell). However I got a lovely surprise shock when I got on the scales and have lost a couple more kilos. I felt for sure the scales weren't working as I was so surprised because I haven't really been trying very hard this past two weeks. I must have donated them to Jass. Actually, Jass, how about I send my other 10 kilos I don't need over to you whilst you add them on while growing your baby? Sounds like a deal to me grin

I hope you all have a lovely weekend too. What's everyone else up to?

I am planning a bit of thrift store shopping after the gym. Happy days! smile flowers smile

jassS Sat 07-Mar-15 08:12:39

Gum,so ready to grab your 10 if it makes you feel any better. I have gained a couple myself, too. What a day! I really do not get parents who think 16yo have not googled lots of intersting images,ceben if their parents tell them it is "disgusting". Who the hell teaches kids nowadays that naked bodies are disgusting? What about sexual ed at school, do these parents allow the kids go there?

Ladies, tell me if I an talking too much of pg here, I will try to drag myself to pg after mc forum or sth if that is the case. I haven't done it as I feel I would freak out everyone there if I owned up to how many mcs I have had! From the other side, if I would only count those where at least a sac formed I only have 4. The rest were chems..... But I feel uncomfortable elsewhere and looking at ante-natals threads I really do not see I could be part of those. I only check things like "is everyone else having cramping around 7w", riduclously, as if I did not know it is very common. Well, I have it, pretty bad, cramping occasionally, not spotting or anything. This is a good sign, for those who like their daily positive update. But tell me if it is too much.

I am now considering not going to doctors before I am back in Estonia for easter, i.e close to 11 weeks. I got an app here but they sent a mail to move the time, and I have fixed meeting times at work that time I cannot change (we need a quorum). In Estonia I do not have to make appointments 3 weeks in advance and then get them changed and then go there and still wait 3 hours sometimes before I get seen, surrounded by huuuuuge bellies and fresh babies:-) My proposed appointment is anyway only three days before we leave for easter. and even if it would be bad news then I would cope better, as they will swiftly solve the issue, and my daughter is coming close to her due date, so plenty of happiness around anyway. Of course all this still applies if I will not bleed before that, but a month ago it seemed preposterous I might stay pg for a whole month. but I have been pg knowingly now for month and 2 days! I am in denial I guess in some way, but normal pg women who are not spotting do not do docs all the time, do they:-))

IonaMumsnet (MNHQ) Sat 07-Mar-15 11:28:25

Morning all. Sorry to barge in on the thread but we did just want to pop by with a reminder of our This Is My Child campaign as we've had some reports about posts on this thread mentioning a boy with Asperger's in a bit of a derogatory way. We don't want to derail the thread but would just ask everyone to think carefully about how they discuss other children when there may well be parents of children with Asperger's reading who would understandably find those views upsetting reading. Thank you! And good luck to you all on your journies TTC.

Grizzer Sat 07-Mar-15 20:25:48

Hmmmm hello ladies, haven't had much chance for a catch up. Dd turned 5 today & we have had a fun filled day. She was so excited it was just lovely to see. I'm enjoying a glass of wine now & hoping I manage to stay awake to watch CSI at 9!!
Jass I love hearing about your pregnancy. Please don't feel you can't talk about it here. We are here to listen & support people through their journeys both good & bad & this is sounding more and more like a good one!
Gum I hear you rightly complaining about rude ungrateful parents rather than the child who is, of course, guided by the parent. We take 44 eleven year olds away to Berlin for 4 days as our trip & very rarely receive any thanks. Some people are just too precious & shouldn't send their children on trips if they don't want them to learn & grow. Hope you're ok xx

Gumblossom Sat 07-Mar-15 22:44:19

Oh dear! I wish I could edit my post. Should I have it taken down?

I certainly didn't wish to offend anyone, and I can see how it might upset other parents of children with ASD. I guess I was trying to illustrate the point that the parents were causing me grief but had no thanks for taking their child on a wonderful trip - it wasn't a dig at the fact that he has ASD.

Anyway...If it is too offensive, I suppose mumsnet will take it down? Clearly it has been reported. Hopefully I haven't offended anyone on this thread? I am sorry if I have.

Jass, I for one, am very happy to have you hear talking about your pregnancy.It is very good news to me, I like to hear it.

Happy 5th Birthday to Grizzer's DD. I do love how excited the little ones get on their special day. It is a highlight of parenting, I think.

Right, I am going to hide in my corner now, after being scolded. I feel a bit like a very naughty child. [shamefacedemiticon]

jassS Sun 08-Mar-15 08:06:17

I think it was all about the narrow-mindedness of parents. i did not get any neg vibes about the child or his disgnosis. OK, a remidner from the big bro, lets keep it in mind and move on.

Fridgedooropen Sun 08-Mar-15 08:49:13

I could clearly see that that this was about parental behaviour and its effect on the child, not about a condition in any way. Don't feel bad Gum.

Moving on. jass if it's helping you to be here and post, then you should do it. There's plenty of time to move onto pregnancy threads. I also like to think that other people get lucky, allows me to think that I will too!

Not a lot going on here. DH prescribed antibiotics now as it's a chest infection. He's improving but we're well past the window. I've been exhausted too. So am writing this month off. Although a late attempt might be worthwhile - have said before that this was how my DS was conceived.

It's now a rainy Sunday here. Yesterday was a lovely spring day, and we have the luxury of nothing specific we have to do so it could have been a nice day to just hang out at the playground etc, but looks like we will be indoors. Hope everyone else is having a good weekend.

fromwesttoeast Sun 08-Mar-15 11:02:46

I'm also enjoying your updates Jass. I totally get what you are saying about being pg but not feeling pg enough to brave the pg boards.
I actually got a bfp almost two weeks ago. I haven't even dared to write it here before now, let alone post on a pg board.
I tested the day AF was due and got a faint line, then again a week later and got a darker line than before. I've also continued to take my temp, which has remained fairly stable. I'm now 5+5. I think this means I'm probably past the stage of it being a chemical.
Having said all that I'm not feeling very confident that this pg will survive. Some days I feel positive and I take a pregnacare. Most days I feel like what's the point and just take a cheap folic acid.
I don't want to feel any excitement or invest anything emotionally, I am preparing myself for a mc. This is a kind of weird place to be.

SeeWotHappens Sun 08-Mar-15 14:38:05

Jass, please don't feel that you're talking about pregnancy too much. I very much look forward to your updates. In fact when I come on here I always hope that you've posted something.

Gum, don't feel bad! I knew exactly what you meant, you were making a comment about the parents reaction, this was clear.

Fromwest. Thank you for sharing. It's heartbreaking isn't it? - How MC robs the joy of pregnancy, well certainly early pregnancy. I think you just have to be positive and take each day as it comes. Today you are 5+5 so you take that for what it is, that you are 5+5 pregnant and you take your daily pregnacare and you deal with tomorrow when tomorrow comes. For now though, may I offer a tentative congratulations and just to say that you and Jass are both in my thoughts. I really am keeping everything crossed for you and her. My heart gives a little leap when ever someone gets a BFP xxx

jassS Sun 08-Mar-15 20:08:57

Fromwest, happy to hear you have moved on to the 12-week wait, too! I think we all can relate here to the feeling that we do not risk to invest into pregnancy. Try to just enjoy the fact that any time you wish you can pee on the stick it shows two lines. The rest - well, the waiting to rather mc than carry to term is inevitable, and of course registering on pregnancy boards will not help, because their discussion is about trivialities of when to go to doc, when to start buying stuff etc. Your inner worry is existential, in stark contrast with a normal pg woman.
I read the forums to compare my symptoms occasionally, but will never register. I have not even gone near to ttc after mc thread, cause most peoplethere have 1-2 mc and then move happily forever after into twiight with their new pg. I know 1-2 mc is horrible, too, and admit that after 10th or so I so detached my condition from emotional things like mother's love for that weak line on the hpt. Then it got easier.
i wish you Fromwest the strength to live these days, and remember - mc risk goes right down already in week 7-8: if you have not mc by then or having mc symptoms, the baby has prob managed to hang on and the probabilty of a norm pg rises quickly to 90%. I found it somewhere which says that even woth my condition (tolk sac at least seen between weeks 5-6) the probability of a live birth is around 90%! The risk of a chemical passes around beta 1000, which for me is when test line more or less equals control on most standard 25miu hpts. But Some people may be at 1000 with far less strong hpt lines!

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