Late ovulation ... a big problem??(23 Posts)
Hiya We've been ttc for 4 month, no luck as yet. I've been charting & using OPKs this month, it seems i didn't ovulate until day19 (of a 29 ish day cycle) ... is that a big problem? Would that be enough time for implantation before AF started? The annoying thing is we bd-ed EVERY night from day 11-18, and STILL managed to miss ovulated by a day!!!!
If i'm not pregnant this month and i continue to ovulate late, is there anything the doctor might be able to give me to bring ovulation forward, and would i still be made to wait the 12 months before i can get any help??
Thanks in advance
A friend was having trouble conceiving and the doc recommended sex every second day from the last day of period to first day of next period. That way you cover all your bases! Worked for her!
Ovulation is not an exact science by any means.You can ovulate earlier, later or not at all in any given cycle. Both opk's and temp charting are best with problems and can give inaccurate results (apart from the inherent stress of using such methods).
Four months is not a long time in the great ttc scheme of things and you may be worrying yourself unduly. Rigourous timing of intercourse is often a mistake and can do more harm than good. Although bd daily from days 11-18 sounds good to him you will wear him out and he may well become resentful as bd could be seen as being done to a timetable. Making love two or three times a week throughout your cycle is fine, you certainly don't have to do it every day (this is a myth). Make love when you both feel like it, not because you think its the right time.
A more important issue is what your periods are like generally - if they are irregular in nature and or painful then medical advice should be sought sooner rather than later. If your periods are generally regular in nature then chances are you are ovulating more often than not (even normally fertile women have the occasional anovulatory cycle).
Thanks girls We keep trying something different every month, hehe, we've had a couple of months of the 'rabbit method' doing it every night, a couple of months doing it every other night. The amount of sex isn't a problem, hubby is generally MORE than happy to be used ... he thinks his birthday has come early!!
My cycles are generally 29-30 days, altho i did have a 32 day cycle a few months ago. I'm happy to do the charting, i set the alarm for 7am, take the temp & straight back to sleep. I know if you go to the doctor for help, they usually ask you to chart for a few months & THEN go back, doh.
So is 10 days enough time for implantation? Thats the bit that bothered me, i'm not sure how that all works really?
Re your comment:-
"I know if you go to the doctor for help, they usually ask you to chart for a few months & THEN go back, doh".
This assumption is incorrect. No GP who knows what they're talking about will advise this course of action. Many gynaes also do not take any notice of such things primarily because they are so unreliable.
Charting is beset with problems in its own right. The chart can be difficult to interpret with any degree of accuracy even if cycles are irregular. You can get a temp rise in the second half of your cycle when an egg has not been shed.
Ah, ok then Its just i've heard many people say that they've been advised to try charting as a means to evaluate what's going on in their cycle. I have found it very useful to be honest, but i know a lot of people don't have the discipline for it, altho it only takes about 30 seconds a day, lol.
Anyhoo, i'm not looking for a debate on the merits of charting, just a bit of advice about late ovulation.
I know it may seem like ages to you but 4 months won't be regarded by medics as a long time to ttc. If you are under 35 they advise you try for a year, 6 months if over 35, in UK. Personally, it took me 10 months (charting as well) to conceive my 1st.
The late ovualtion is not a problem at all and charting, when you know what you're doing, is very useful indeed. From what you've said you think you ovulate around cd 19 which in itself is fine, however a LP (luteal phase) of 10 days is a little on the short side and you should take your charts to a GP or certainly Gynae and they will understand what this will mean for your conception chances.
Implantation can take place anywhere from 6dpo (days post ovulation) to 12dpo which if you implant on dpo 9+ obviously has implications for a viable pg if your body is already preparing to shed your womb lining before the embryo has had a chance to burrow deep enough.
I agree with ATM that sex every other day during your cycle will help to lighten the load and in addition give your husbands sperm a chance to regroup so to speak.
If your charts show a definite thermal shift of temps then in all liklihood you are ovulating. If not and the temps are all over the place for the whole month then this would suggest an anovulatory cycle.
You only see a temp shift when an egg has been released, not without. hth
Finally, I don't know if you're aware but there is a fab book often recommended on here called Taking Charge Of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler, which is fantastic for women who chart. I'm still dipping into it ttc3.
Thanks sorkycake Yeah, 4 months isn't long at all really, altho it only took 1 month to conceive my 1st little boy. I'm just thinking if we carry on for months like this, with late ovulation, it would seem like a waste of time? If i went to the docs & they said 'your LP is too short' & i'd feel stupid coz i'd know that was the case for all that time!!
I think if we're not pregnant this month we'll definitely do it less, or at least save up until ovulation. Doing it every night was just one of the methods on the list, and thought it'd be fun, hehe.
I've definitely had a temp shift this month, so in that case i definitely ovulated. I do find charting useful, very much so. i really would recommend it to anyone.
I'll have a little look around for that book, maybe i can get it from the library?
I agree with Meerkat, 4 months is hardly any time at all in the grand scheme of things, weve been trying for just over a year now and was told by gp that a year is perfectly normal. Just because it only took a month to conceive one child doesnt mean theres something wrong if you didnt fall pregnant first month with this one.
I also agree re charting, opks etc, generally theyre unreliable, and lead to far more stress with comparatively little success. An ovulation predictor stick will predict an lh surge, but you can have several lh surges during a cycle, but this does not prove you have ovulated. There are countless posts on these boards from groups of people who are using various methods to predict their fertile times, persona/ovulation microscope/temp charting, and none of these boards appear to have any greater success than those of us who are purely making love regularly. If you are ovulating, then having sex a couple of times a week will put you in the right time frame for a possible conception, but stressing about conception and doing it at the right time etc can actually delay ovulation so can be counter productive. I recently went to my gp and when I told her I hadnt been charting she said good, charting is unreliable, and the gp will take no notice anyway, and it can only make you become obsessed. Tbh, its unlikely your gp will listen if youve only been trying for 4 months, you have to have been trying for a year before they will take you seriously, be patient, make love, and if it is meant to be then it will be. Good luck
Thanks hun I do see your point, a lot of people get stressed about actively ttc & trying to get scientific about it. None of that is bothering me at all, i kinda like it ;)
The thing that is bothering me is whether my luteal phase is long enough, because if it isn't, we could make love at the right times, but not get pregnant because i get my period before the fertilised egg implants. That is the main issue for me right now, we could shag til the cows come home, but not get pregnant because of this.
This is quite along article but gives more information generally:-
The luteal phase of the menstrual cycle spans the time between ovulation and the onset of the next menses. Luteal phase defect (LPD) is a common but misunderstood condition that frequently affects fertility.
Many people describe LPD in terms of its symptoms, e.g., a shortened luteal phase or disrupted basal body temperatures (BBTs). Quite simply, however, LPD is a failure of the uterine lining to be in the right phase at the right time. Since embryo implantation is highly dependent on the state of the lining, LPD can consistently interfere with a woman's ability to get pregnant and carry a pregnancy successfully.
A Normal Menstrual Cycle
In an ideal menstrual cycle, the body begins to produce follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) several days after the onset of menses. The increased levels of FSH result in the formation of a mature egg-containing follicle on one of the ovaries. When the follicle has adequately matured, a surge of luteinizing hormone (LH) is triggered. This surge performs two interrelated functions:
It prompts the follicle to burst and release the egg into the fallopian tube, where fertilization may take place.
As the follicle begins to refill after bursting, the increased levels of LH cause the fluid inside the follicles to change into a thicker yellowish substance.
The resulting structure is now called a corpus luteum rather than a follicle, and it is responsible for producing the hormone progesterone in the second half of the cycle. As a result of elevated progesterone levels, the uterine lining will thicken and develop additional blood vessels, which gives the embryo a place to attach. Progesterone will also prevent a premature onset of menses in which a pregnancy might be lost. In a normal menstrual cycle, the corpus luteum will produce progesterone for approximately twelve days.
A Cycle with LPD
A normal cycle can be disrupted in several places. Three causes of LPD include poor follicle production, premature demise of the corpus luteum, and failure of the uterine lining to respond to normal levels of progesterone. These problems can also be found in conjunction with each other.
Poor follicle production has its origins in the first half of the cycle. The body may not produce a normal level of FSH, or the ovaries do not respond strongly to the FSH, leading to inadequate follicle development. Because the follicle ultimately becomes the corpus luteum, poor follicle formation leads to poor corpus luteum quality. In turn, a poor corpus luteum will produce inadequate progesterone, causing the uterine lining to be adequately prepared for the implantation of a fertilized embryo. Ultimately progesterone levels may drop early and menses will arrive sooner than expected.
Premature failure of the corpus luteum can occur even when the initial quality of the follicle/corpus luteum is adequate. For reasons not wholly understood, the corpus luteum sometimes does not persist as long as it should. Initial progesterone levels at five to seven days past ovulation may be low; even if they are adequate, the levels drop precipitously soon thereafter, again leading to early onset of menses.
Failure of the uterine lining to respond can occur even in the presence of adequate follicle development and a corpus luteum that persists for the appropriate length of time. In this condition, the uterine lining does not respond to normal levels of progesterone. Therefore, should an embryo arrive and try to implant, the lining will not be adequately prepared, and the implantation will likely fail.
Diagnosis and Treatment of Luteal Phase Deficiency
With the above information, it is easier to understand the many symptoms associated with LPD. Progesterone is responsible for the rise in basal body temperature during the luteal phase. Women who monitor their basal body temperature will thus often note that luteal phase temperatures do not stay reliably elevated for twelve days. Additionally, women who monitor the time of ovulation often notice that their next cycle begins sooner than the normal 12-14 days after ovulation.
Once a diagnosis of LPD is suspected, a serum progesterone test will often be performed at about seven days past ovulation. A level less than 14 ng/ml indicates that progesterone production in the luteal phase is inadequate.
Should progesterone levels prove to be low, the temptation is often to "treat the symptom" by giving the patient progesterone supplementation during the luteal phase. In the case of inadequate corpus luteum performance, progesterone support may indeed be the appropriate solution. However, inadequate follicle development may also be causing the low progesterone levels. Thus, it is important to measure midcycle follicle size (via ultrasound) and estradiol levels (via a blood test).
If follicle development is normal, then progesterone supplementation during the luteal phase is normally the correct treatment. If follicle development is inadequate, an ovulatory stimulant such as Clomid or an injectable drug may be in order; these drugs help the follicle to mature more appropriately, which has the double benefit of producing a higher quality egg and a better-functioning corpus luteum.
Women whose linings fail to respond to normal progesterone levels often have normal follicle development and adequate progesterone levels at 7 days past ovulation. An ultrasound image of the lining at seven dpo, however, will show a lining that has failed to convert from the triple layer lining typical of the time of ovulation. In this case, women are often given additional progesterone supplementation in the luteal phase in the hope that a higher level will be the push that the lining needs to convert appropriately. Some doctors use injections of human chorionic gonadotropin to further stimulate the corpus luteum. However, these injections can cause false positive pregnancy results.
Wow, thank you so much for that Great article, much better than the ones i'd come across!!! I'll have another read of it now.
I started tracking my cycles when I came off the pill.
I started doing ovulation tests and tracking my cycle and saw that I was ovulating on day 19, and my periods were anything from 26 - 35 days apart, making my luteal phase very short at times.
Anyway, at least I knew how my body worked, and knew I was ovulating. It took us about five months to conceive, and I am now 33 weeks!
I think it is good to track your cycle. It certainly helped us...
Thanks Charlotte I'm relieved to hear you still got pregnant, even with a short LP ;) Congrats to you, you're nearly there!!! Exciting!!!
I ovulate on day 18 of a 28 day cycle, so a lp of 10 days, when TTC it took about 3-4 months each time (4 births , 3mc) so did not seem to hinder getting pg.
Actually ttc pg#1 took about 30 seconds due to a burst condom
Thanks hun I'm so sorry about the 3m/c
We're on month 4 now, ooh maybe this will be it for us then!!!
i wonder if i could get some advise??
As my doc's just dont seem to wanna help..
me and my boyfriend have been trying now since Sept 09.. i had the coil removed last feb 09..so its been out a year now, since having it removed my periods have been all over the place, they have gone from every 35 days.. to now being every 50 days!! im finding very hard to find out when im ovluating... we have tried the Ovlation kits, they dont seem to pick up anything to having sex every other day.. which after a while i start to feel like im getting thrush.. do you think there is something wrong with me..??
getting so frustrated now... any advise would be a great help..
hi every one! sorry to intrude. i have never done this before. i am also looking for some advise and support if thats ok with you lot?
i seem to also have a very late ovulation and can do with some advise. Me and the husband have been ttc for 6 months for the past two months ive been using OPK's. Anyways, my cycles are always 26 days(except for one month which was 28 days which was three months back, probably due to stress...). However ive been having the LH surge on day 16 (test still possitive at night time) so according to others i'ld be ovulating around day 17/18. thats only 8 days untill i have my period again. is that too late? please help if you can, im trying my best not to start panicking :-/
thanks tons and tons!
Hi gembelina. Just a word of caution on OPKs as they make a few assumptions which aren't always correct: -
-They assume that you have one LH surge a month
-They assume that the LH surge will be followed by ovulation within 36 hours.
I got pregnant this month and used a freebie OPK on day 12, it was positive so I assumed I would ovulate on day 13/14. However all other signs show I actually was ovulating on day 12 (got my BFP on day 25, 1st day I tested). So you may not necessarily be as late as day 17/18.
Are you watching for any other signs of ovulation? Like EWCM, checking cervical position, noting any ovulation pain/spotting, charting your BBT? These may help give some supporting evidence to confirm/contradict your OPK results.
If it turns out that you have an 8-9 day luteal phase then it won't necessarily cause you a problem (there are plenty of mumsnetters who have conceived with short luteal phases), but it may be an issue. Attila copied an article above on Luteal Phase Defect which is a possibility for you, and probably worth seeing your GP about to see if you can get a diagnosis/treatment or rule it out.
I have a 9-10 day luteal phase and got pregnant 3rd month of trying so don't give up hope!
I have no idea if it had any effect but I decided on month 3 to start taking Evening Primrose Oil (1500mg daily from CD1 to ovulation) and Vit B6 as some people think they may help regulate cycles/prolong the LP. But I conceived this month so I have no idea how long that LP was!
Best of luck!
oh congratulations!!! :-D
yeah i was thinking along those lines this month and made sure the hubby was around for a good few days before the lH surge just in case.
i cant really write down pain ect as i constanly have bad IBs and the pain from that is always constant and menstual pain etc etc is very simular so its too confusing.
i am going to start charting my BBT in my next cycle. Im due today (although ive no PMS symptoms, which is very unlike me, just this sickie feeling and im sooooo nasty to the husband and i cant stop it.......)
thanks for the advice im on my way to town to go buy some primrose oil!!!
im goingto give it another ouple of cycles esp with all the extra charting and then see if its still the same
thanks for replying! means alot!#and congratulations hun!
No problems, and thank you!
If you get into this Charting malarky and have questions etc then there is a group of current charters/recent graduates on a thread called Charters Anonymous, you'd be very welcome to come and have a chat.
Sorry to hear about the IBS though, sounds miserable for you.
I just wanted to add my story because these threads were a source of comfort and info for me when trying. I came off the mini pill in August 2015. My periods were never longer than 24 days and I would ovulate late, so I was really worried about LPD (LP of around a week).
But this month I've found out I'm pregnant!! :-)
Just my story, but if you're progesterone, LH and FSH levels are ok- I would try not to worry too much.
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