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dear pregnant work mate spare thought before...

(63 Posts)
bluer Thu 22-Nov-12 17:30:07

whining about how worried you were that your second child took so long to conceive you were getting worried....when you only had your implant taken out four months ago.
And not only showing your scan pix once but actually leaving them lying out on the table all through dinner even though we have all seen them...
And then moan about how far you're getting and how awful it all is. ..
When the green eyed monster has me and I'd quite happily chew your arm off to be in your shoes...

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Thu 22-Nov-12 22:54:53

Well of she can't say it here, where can she say it? Maybe "LillyLovesLife" thinks the infertile should go away to the Infertility section of MN so as not to upset everyone else.

IllageVidiot Thu 22-Nov-12 23:15:17

LillyLovesLife - Whoops, I think you got lost on your way to Nethuns, it's that way -> it's fun, one doesn't have to think too hard.

Bluer - It can be a minefield of emotion, I empathise; I frequently wanted to lamp a very special snowflake who apparently was the first woman in the world to ever, ever have a baby so nobody else could possibly understand (rant alert!)
I wish you all the best. We got there, it looked like we wouldn't. We had a few years on you (which does not in any way meant to diminish how you are feeling - it's one of the few clubs that hopes it's members get out early!) and I found pragmatic acceptance (with the odd blub) kept me from insanity. Good luck for whichever path yours turns out to be.

inadreamworld Fri 23-Nov-12 09:30:20

I am currently expecting 2nd baby and have got pregnant easily both times. This thread is making me think twice about some things I have said to people. I can understand the OP feeling the way she does and I don't think she sounds bitter at all.

I have a friend who has an IVF baby who took ages to conceive (and she wants another and not sure if it will happen) and it is making me think that some things I have said to her have not been particularly sensitive though we still get on great. We were having a chat recently and she was telling me about her latest holiday and I was talking about the cost of a double buggy. I bet she was wishing I would shut up about the baby and I was feeling jealous she had the money to go on holiday (and afford IVF) when we are struggling to afford 2nd hand stuff for the new baby.

I will try to think more carefully about the things I say in future, having or not having babies is such and emotional topic and they are all little miracles - I pray you have your much longed for baby very soon OP xx

SinkyGoodenplenty Fri 23-Nov-12 09:43:54

inadreamworld please don't worry about it. I don't think any of us resent chatting about reasonable things like that. I have lots of chats with friends about the difficulty of timing number 2 etc. I quite enjoy it really.

Just don't moan it's taking ages if you've not reached 6 months ttc, even if it was easy last time grin. And don't moan about being fat. You're not fat. You're pregnant.

disclaimer for those hard of thinking. I am not suggesting inadreamworld would do anything like this. She seems lovely and thoughtful.

<accusation of bitterness dodge>

IAmSoFuckingRock Fri 23-Nov-12 09:49:24

OP i've never been in your position but i have massive sympathy. it must be so hard seeing that everyday. i know you are aware that it isn't intentional on her part and yes i agree with you it is far better that you vent it all here than in RL when she's showing her latest scan pics.

take care. i wish all the luck in the world that you are in her situation soon. smile

inadreamworld Fri 23-Nov-12 09:53:35

Thanks Sinky. I just found this thread randomly but maybe I was meant to find it and think about being more sensitive to others feelings. My DHs Mum took 15 years to conceive him (her only child) in the days before fertility treatment existed. Another friend had IVF, it didn't work, then she got pregnant naturally. You never know what will happen and miracles can and do happen.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Fri 23-Nov-12 10:59:26

Oh no, she said it! grin

inadreamworld, you seem like a nice thoughtful person to me. Bluer didn't mean people like you I think.

EuroShagmore Fri 23-Nov-12 11:11:58

I think if people talked about infertility more openly, it would help. As somone said upthread, it is treated as a taboo subject. Consequently, most people who find it easy to conceive never consider what it is like for those of us who struggle or may never manage it.

The problem for the person who got pregnant easily is that they usually don't know that by complaining about their pregnancy to someone who is struggling with ttc, they are doing the equivalent of complaining about how much their diamond soled shoes pinch to someone who cannot afford to eat.

mrsden Fri 23-Nov-12 11:44:16

Euro has hit the nail on the head. People generally don't talk about infertility and because they don't, people who have had no problems have very little idea of how utterly devastating and painful it is. I can't describe the misery of it. I haven't told people because it's not something I feel comfortable talking about, And I don't want faux sympathy. I currently have one colleague who is pregnant with her second, and it is all she talks about. I understand she's excited, but the scan photos, week by week size of bump updates, every possible symptom in great detail, etc etc is too much for me. I'm friends with her on fb and she's the same on there, she is a lovely person and I know that it hasn't occurred to her that she's being insensitive, why would it?

People don't intend to be insensitive, they just are not aware that their joy can be a source of heartache for others. I always smile and act thrilled and excited at other people's baby news. Ive been to baby showers, I play guess the weight of the baby in the office sweepstake, I contribute generously to presents for the new mum and baby. I swoon over scan photos, I ask questions. I comment on baby photos and pregnancy announcements on fb. I would never let myself act bitter and cold. But sometimes all I really want to do is crawl away and hide.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Fri 23-Nov-12 14:48:22

But if it IS the case that there are all these infertile couples everywhere (1 in 7 have difficulty conceiving?), and that they do genuinely have no idea of the hurt they are causing, then shouldn't they be made aware? Just a little bit? Because yes, how can they have any idea if they think that deciding to have a child entails simply having sex, getting pregnant and then giving birth for everyone?

My DH is about to tell his sister that we may not see them at Christmas because we have been TTC for nearly three years and we are now finally at the top of the list for fertility treatment, which has coincided with my dad becoming seriously ill, my sister getting pregnant, and SIL getting pregnant. I think a Christmas with her, particularly if this treatment fails, could actually tip me over the edge. And she has no idea, because she has never been told- she keeps going onandonandonandon about her pregnancy and how excited her first daughter is etc until I could scream. Why hasn't DH told her? I don't know. Perhaps he's embarrassed at any imagined slight on his "manhood", even though we are Unexplained. All I know is I am sick of having to hide my distress and all I want is for people to understand if I am not around this Christmas because it's too hard.

keepitgoing Fri 23-Nov-12 15:23:20

Oh Ariel sad I think it will help to tell your sil, as you say, how could she know.

I've been relatively open with good friends and family about our issues (18m) as I really want it to be less taboo, and feel strongly it should be more talked about. Dh hasn't told his family, but as we are having ivf soon I am encouraging him to. It stops awful comments (though you get others once they know, which though well meant can be bad too!), as well.

But not if you feel uncomfortable.

Where are the 1 in 7??? In my life it's just me!!

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Fri 23-Nov-12 15:25:03

He will tell her, believe me. And if he doesn't, I will <grim>

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Fri 23-Nov-12 15:26:00

And yy to where the hell are the 1 in 7?????? Even all my schoolfriends who have married in the last year, at the age of 36, are all mothers or pregnant by now!

mrsden Fri 23-Nov-12 15:27:05

What does the 1 in 7 mean though? We've been trying for over 2 and a half years, I think the numbers trying for this length of time and longer must be less than 1 in 7. All of my friends are pregnant or have children already, I feel very much alone.

mrsden Fri 23-Nov-12 15:30:41

A quick google tells me that the 1 in 7 is after 1 year, then more than half of those will conceive within the second year without help. So those of us past two years of trying are in a tiny minority.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Fri 23-Nov-12 15:33:15

I think it's that one in seven face some difficulty conceiving, yes.

People who are resolutely barren like us, are special <gallows humour>

StrawberriesTasteLikeLipsDo Fri 23-Nov-12 15:40:27

I am 34 weeks with DS2. It took me 16 months of concerted trying (plus a probably 10 months of "being indiscrete") to get DS1. Took 26 months to fall pregnant this time.
My GPs were utter twunts and only NOW recognise the medical issue which made conception so hard stable door and horse anyone?!
In that time I confided in friends, one was an utter bitch, got pregnant herself and actually said "you must be so sad" i corrected her sharply! Some people are insensitive twats.

I agree infertility is kept almost a secret, and I personally snapped in tht sense. People would ask "when are you having kids/ another" and I got so fed up id actually say well because of XYZ its not that easy! My specially reserved line for everyday bad days was "We dont all shit them out like eggs" - that shows you how dark I got.

I think it needs to be spoken about and people need to accept how sensitive it makes people! You dont begrudge happiness to people, you dont want their baby, you dont think there are only a finite amount to go around, you just want your baby. Nothing more natural than that and no reason for anyone to be ashamed or secretive unless they so choose.

bluer Fri 23-Nov-12 19:12:38

Wow quite a discussion going! I'm not sure why we havent told anyone in RL yet (including a friend of mine who had IVF last year) but for some reason I'm just not able to...I don't want the sympathy.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Fri 23-Nov-12 19:22:35

I know, it's hard isn't it?

For me, it's not wanting sympathy so much as a bit of empathy.

Phineyj Fri 23-Nov-12 19:33:23

I tell you what, infertility certainly sorts out your real friends from the ones who aren't, so much, and it's not always who you think. I made an active decision at the lowest point, after a few years of trying, to avoid the ones who either got embarrassed or wouldn't acknowledge the issue and to spend more times with the ones who were supportive. I also decided not to involve my MIL or her side of the family in any way (with DH's full support) as I knew I wouldn't be able to deal with the feeling sorry for us/constant enquiries and sending of news clippings. I decided I'd definitely rather people thought we were selfish and didn't want children than felt sorry for us.

I do think people should talk about it more and now I'm (finally) pregnant I have been quite open with people that it was really difficult, we had to use an egg donor, go abroad for treatment etc as I believe that's the only way people will understand how hard it can be (I was still astonished at the number of people who couldn't get over the 'abroad' part and kept talking like it was a holiday...FFS, who travels thousands of miles for an outpatient procedure if they don't have to?!).

I do think that it doesn't even occur to a lot of people that that childless colleague might not be so through choice. I also think it's possible to be happy and excited for friends/colleagues/relatives who are pregnant and enjoy being around children while at the same time needing to avoid some situations, people and comments/focus on other things. Weirdly, for me, it was an activity I sometimes used to do on a weekend where most of the other participants were retired that got to me. They'd talk constantly about their grandchildren and I'd contemplate how there were no other 30-somethings there as all off doing things with children and go home and cry! It would be awful/is awful to be branded that tragic figure where all discussion of babies and children must be avoided...I was also driven mad by one or two people (best friend's husband, I'm looking at you) who responded in that 'quick, let's get the flipchart out and brainstorm lots of solutions' way. When you're in that situation you need tea and sympathy, not enquiries as to whether you've considered surrogacy (or whatever)...

MrsHY1 Fri 23-Nov-12 19:35:12

My new response to insensitive questions about kids and lack thereof (and I appreciate this is not for the faint hearted) is: "I'd love a baby, but its difficult to conceive one when you love it up the arse as much as I do."
Apologies if I've upset anyone's sensibilities, I've had a couple of sherbets.blush

EuroShagmore Fri 23-Nov-12 20:39:03

I love it, MrsHY! !

I favour telling people. People who I don't know well who make insensitive comments get something like "it isn't easy for everyone you know <wounded look>". Close friends and family all know and have for the most part been very supportive and thoughtful. I do accept it isn't for everyone though. And I have kept it away from work, save for telling one person I am quite close to. I don't want to be kept away from the good opportunities because of a baby I might not ever have.

As for "where are the 1 in 7?", my two closest friends have IVF babies. Another had a number of miscarriages before finally having a baby last month. And this isn't from a vast social circle. I also know two other acquaintances who are having problems - one is having IVF and the other I know had a miscarriage about 2 years ago and doesn't have a baby yet. I think I am collecting them all! (Or more likely, because I have talked about it, other people have said "me too" rather than initiating a "taboo" subject themselves.)

bluer Fri 23-Nov-12 20:53:53

Oh Mrs that is an absolute corker of a comment.
I think these threads are healthy in getting the message out there and making people aware <feels virtuous>

mirry2 Fri 23-Nov-12 20:58:43

I had several miscarriages while all round me my friends were having babies. I used to thnk it was so unfair that none of them had gone through my pain. I didn't know anyone who had a miscarriage and there was no mumsnet at the time. I felt so alone, especially as my friend avoided me while they were pregnant and even at work eople who were pregnant would stop talking about babies whenever I entrered the room. I really didn't talk about my miscarriages at all and did my best to pretend that I was overjoyed for other people whenever they were pregnant so I don't know why they acted like they did.

DreamingOfPeace Fri 23-Nov-12 21:17:32

I agree with more openness. I'm bloody lucky, I have a DD, 2 and 7.5 month old twins, all naturally conceived. I'm blessed.

I know one person who is currently undergoing ivf after a failed first attempt. Another has just had an ivf baby. Another friend of a friend has one 5 yo and is desperate for another but has had 2 miscarriages, no further bfp. I sometimes feel almost embarrassed to be so lucky, especially when I was pregnant with my boys and the couple who've just had their ivf baby couldn't even bear to come round sad

So (((hugs)) op, you sound lovely, here's hoping you get so lucky soon.

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