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Assisted Conception (and the bits in between) Volume 10

(1000 Posts)
MoJangled Wed 13-Jun-12 14:23:19

Our new home, hope you all find me soon...

Keziahhopes Sun 17-Jun-12 22:57:48

Chickenfordinner - hello I am Keziah, with a 15 week old ds and had lots of support from people here. The one thing I learnt on our long journey to being parents is that you need to do whatever is right for you, so that whatever decisions you make you can live with whatever happens with treatment. So for eg, I was given tickets to the ballet in my 2ww after ICSI but it was a long drive, late at night etc so I chose to not go (and it was a real treat I missed!) just in case (I got a bfn) so that I didn't say to myself for ever "if only". Other people have different thresholds and as long as they are happy with what they do I think that is all that matters. All the best - do let us know how it goes!!

Italiangreyhound Mon 18-Jun-12 01:39:11

Sunnyg I have just read your sad news and I am so very sorry.

There are no real words to give but I am thinking of you and praying for you.

Italiangreyhound Mon 18-Jun-12 01:42:19

Bugsy I am so sorry for you. That is terrible news. I just read the end of the last thread. Excuse me for whittling on but I read your comments a few minutes ago and wondered about this idea of positive people getting a positive pregnancy test? I wondered where you read it or saw it. I think there are a few things; well maybe you can make yourself a more positive person. I was dead shy at 16 but changed and by the time I was older I was full of confidence, now I am a very confident person, I just decided to act more confidently. So I do think it is possible to be positive. I found a few sites but I am not sure if any of them are valid or weird or whatever. The only one I feel able to offer is this one because it is just lots of Bible passages, and as a Christian that seems a good idea to pass on, but don't feel you need to read it all.

BUT having said all this I would actually say I am not sure that being a more positive person gets you a positive on a pregnancy test. I am very positive and we tried for years for our baby number 2.

I wonder if what actually happens is that people who know they might get pregnant, who have got pregnant before, or got pregnant easily before, or know the signs in their body, those people might say (if asked before they took the test) that they felt sure/they felt positive the result would be positive! That does not mean that being a positive person made them get pregnant easier (IMHO).

But all of this is just opinion, and I think the real issue for you is more how you are going to handle the situation you are in and move forward with it.

You asked about testing individual embryos, I guess I would ask the doctors - will this work/be more likely to work, how well can they tell if an embryo does have a genetic problem that will cause it to miscarry, how much does it cost etc.

I wish you all the very best of luck with the next cycle or the next bit of treatment. I really do not think that being a glass half empty person is the thing that is making it hard for you to get pregnant. It is just biology. Just medical problems and all of us on here have had some of those or we would not be having assisted conception treatment, and we are all different and all having slightly different treatment. So I would just say find out what will work best for you and if you can afford it, and you are happy to proceed then do.

If the problem is with DH's sperm would he consider a donor? It is a huge question, but it MIGHT be worth asking.

My dear bugsy I really hope and pray this will all work out for you, but whatever happens please do NOT blame yourself or feel that if you were more positive it could have changed the result. I really don't believe our bodies are like that - and that idea puts a terrible pressure onto us. Be very nice to yourself at this moment, and that includes saying nice things to yourself about yourself, you are a wonderful person who has tried so hard, has been a supportive friend on here, and who really wants this. If the medical bods can help you, I really hope they will, and I really believe in miracles too. Love and hugs, Italian.

Hello chicken.
Hugs also to Keziah, Lissy, Lucy, Teds, Vics.*Beginnings*, Scarlett, Pocket, Josie, Maplecake, Scrummy, Ellie, BadgerFace, Mojangled, Lexie, Weller, Mini, Sunnyg, kitty, BadgerFace, Pumpkinjoy, vallinnapod and all.

Italiangreyhound Mon 18-Jun-12 02:04:46

PS bugsy I did find this site and it does look very helpful in terms of positive thinking and reducing stress. Again, I don't think it will change outcomes but it might lower your stress levels and that can only be a good thing.

It says stuff like use different wording ... e.g.

"Milder Wording: Have you ever been to a hospital and noticed how the nurses talk about ‘discomfort’ instead of ‘pain’? This is generally done because ‘pain’ is a much more powerful word, and discussing your ‘pain’ level can actually make your experience of it more intense than if you’re discussing your ‘discomfort’ level. You can try this strategy in your daily life. In your self-talk, turning more powerful negative words to more neutral ones can actually help neutralize your experience. Instead of using words like ‘hate’ and ‘angry’ (as in, “I hate traffic! It makes me so angry!”), you can use words like ‘don’t like’ and ‘annoyed’ (“I don’t like traffic; it makes me annoyed,” sounds much milder, doesn’t it?)"


"Change Self-Limiting Statements to Questions: Self-limiting statements like “I can’t handle this!” or “This is impossible!” are particularly damaging because they increase your stress in a given situation and they stop you from searching for solutions. The next time you find yourself thinking something that limits the possibilities of a given situation, turn it into a question. Doesn’t “How can I handle this?” or “How is this possible?” sound more hopeful and open up your imagination to new possibilities?"

All best wishes for the future to you.

Pocket1 Mon 18-Jun-12 08:00:37

Mo yay for your growing tummy. Hope it grows and grows and grows!! Loved your little chicken rhyme, reminded me of an auntie who used to sing that when I was a kid. smile

Welcome Chicken. I'm afraid I know v little about egg collection so can't really advise but as the other girls have said, you have to do what is right for you. I know what you mean about avoiding chemicals and fumes though and I would somehow have to find another place to be - could you go and have a facial or acupuncture treatment in another salon? Maybe saying 'I know I won't be with you guys for an hour or so but it's such a rare pamper treat, I really fancy having a facial/acupuncture instead. Besides, those nail salons are so smelly, not sure I fancy those fumes'???

ScarlettInSpace Mon 18-Jun-12 09:29:55

Hi everyone, hope you are all ok despite some of the shitty news round here, sorry to read of the failures, I hope you are coping as best you can – I’m sorry I’m blatantly rubbish at sympathising, always have been, not v good with people crying either although I’m not adverse to the odd blub myself [I’m not a heartless witch honest!] – Sorry for not name checking too [I’m worse with memory than sympathy!]

Well we went back to see consultant last week who said my AMH of 4.22 was crap [tell me something I don’t know] but the fact that my FSH was 19 this time [last time was 14] he thinks the AMH is wrong and it is probably nearer 1 angry. He was so negative, he really upset me [apart from giving OH a pat on the back for his ‘excellent’ SA results, which made me feel even worse] He went on to say we could have 1 go at IVF on NHS if we want but he would be very surprised if I got enough eggs to proceed and they probably wouldn’t be very good quality anyway so I shouldn’t expect to get to Egg Transfer, gave me an ‘optimistic 10%’ chance of IVF success then started talking about donor eggs, at which point I burst into tears and he started to back pedal saying he was sure I’d prove him wrong and shoed me out of the door with some tissues & the signed authorisation to progress to IVF in my hand. I'm only 35 ffs and he made me feel like an old barren dame with no hope of ever having my own child.

Oh and he started to talk about long protocol and down regging – I asked if that would be wise given my low AMH etc, he said the nurses would discuss that with me at the next appt – is that right? Feel awfully like I’ve been fobbed off. Overall I’ve been distinctly unimpressed with CRM [Walsgrave Hospital in Coventry] and if we do need a 2nd go I won't be giving them any of my hard earned cash.

I’ve started acupuncture, and she was horrified at what he said, she has recommended I start taking Q10 [if anyone has any advice on that I’d be grateful], DHA & I also need to up my Vit D apparently. So, we have our appt with the nurse to begin the IVF in July but I don’t think we’ll be able to get a viable cycle until at least August due to holidays. Does anyone have any advice/experience on what else I should be doing between now and then to prepare [everything except cutting out alcohol lol, I am going on holiday after all! I'll definitely cut down though and stop altogether after hols] I’ve been dieting [healthily, joined slimming world online] and losing 2lbs a week so BMI now just under 29 [was 30].

Waves to everyone!

EllieMcBellie Mon 18-Jun-12 13:21:18

Hey all

Sorry to everyone who has had bad news sad

I haven't much good news to report here either sad we had egg collection on Saturday and got 9 eggs but unfortunately most were immature so we had 3 that were able to be injected and only one fertilised normally

Our one embryo has 4 cells today so will hopefully grow some more overnight and we will be able to have a transfer tomorrow but both me and DH are really struggling to have any positivity for this cycle now and if truth be told I think we have both written it off sad

I will update again tomorrow and let you know if we manage to have a transfer

MoJangled Mon 18-Jun-12 13:29:00

Just a quick one to say thinking of you today Pocket , I hope meeting your teeny tiny embryo babies goes well and you're serene and buddingly fertile xx

Keziahhopes Mon 18-Jun-12 15:01:12

Hi Scarlett just to say if you are not happy with the hospital and consultant then you may be able to take your NHS funding elsewhere! Might be worth an extra month or two delay. I know Care hospitals in the Midlands take NHS funding etc and might be worth getting a 2nd opinion about cycle and treatment if you not happy with what he suggested.

Pocket1 Mon 18-Jun-12 16:14:25

Mo scooch over on that bench will you?!?!? Two on-board. Otd 27 June. GO EMBIES GO. How's your tummy?


Teds77 Mon 18-Jun-12 16:39:43

Sneaking on to wave my pom poms for Pocket's embies - go embies go!

Also huge hugs for weller bugsy and sunny. weller although our consultant at the Lister (second cycle/second clinic) was brilliant, as others have said, sometimes I don't think there is any reason why one cycle works and one doesn't. Doesn't make it any easier but hope you are starting to regroup xxx. bugsy I can't offer any advice on immunes and other testing but hope you've been able to find some answers elsewhere. Am thinking of you. sunny I don't know when your rescan is and I don't want to get your hopes up (I know sometimes it's easier to face up to what you think is more likely) but am hoping against hope there might be a heart beat xxx. Although my first cycle was just a failure rather than a mc, my advice was similar to that given to pocket - one post-failure AF and then one further AF before I cycled again. If I had gone for short protocol that would have started with the second AF so only 4-5 weeks (I did long in the end).

Mo hoping your four little ones are doing okay and the bloat isn't too bad. Test day must be imminent so have fingers and toes all crossed.

Am going to post this before I lose it but do have some thoughts for my fellow 'rotten egg' sufferers...

Teds77 Mon 18-Jun-12 17:25:43

chicken I'm not sure what to advise but I always felt that I didn't want to look back and say 'what if'. On the other hand I was probably more relaxed and less 'saint-like' during the cycle that worked for us so I don't know if these things are logical.

scarlett so sorry that you had a bit of a brutal time but to let you know that my 'rubbish eggs' have been growing very nicely for 34 weeks and although I still worry every day I'm starting to believe I might actually get to hold my babies very soon. My FSH floated around 10 and my AMH was 2. My resting follicle count was 4-5 and I only got 3 eggs from my first cycle and 3 again from my second. Just two fertilised each time. The first time the embryos were poor quality and effectively stopped developing on day 2. Our consultant's response to this was that this indicated all my eggs would be poor quality. We wanted a second opinion and this ended with us moving clinics, partly because we only got one NHS 'go' (by then used up) but mainly because I needed to cycle somewhere I felt more positive. We found a consultant who was 'glass half full' and who said it was silly to predict the quality of our embryos based on the evidence of only two. Second time around we got two beautiful embryos and they led to our bfp.

I would use your NHS 'go' as you have nothing to lose/it will give you an indication of how you'll respond. If you can use it elsewhere it's worth considering this. If it doesn't work then I would investigate whether there are any clinics that have good reputations for low AMH/high FSH and get a second opinion. Do be prepared for things not working first time or second time or third time but do give yourself a reasonable shot at things working, finances permitting. DH and I said we would have three goes with my eggs and if they are failed/there was no indication it would ever work, we would have a go with donor eggs. I found it difficult to get my head around using donor eggs to start with but the comments and experiences of ladies on here helped with that hugely. However, I don't think I could have tried them without having a go with my own eggs first.

On other stuff we cut down all the nasties and also tried to eat gluten-free (though we didn't stick to this brilliantly). I took Q10, wheatgrass, bee propolis (sp?) and omega 3-6-9. I also had acupuncture. I didn't take DHA and I'm not sure I would take this without it being overseen by my clinic (my second consultant said we'd only look into this after a few more failures). Sorry for long post but hope it helps.

Ellie sorry to hear your news but do stay hopeful. If your EC was Saturday then 4 cells today is good growth from what I understand. I have my fingers crossed there is more growing and you get to transfer tomorrow.

BadgerFace Mon 18-Jun-12 20:22:33

Apologies for the lack of posts ladies, I have only just found this thread. I have been checking on the old one every couple of days and thinking how weird it was that no-one had posted anything for ages... blush Glad to have found you all now though!

sunny so so sorry to hear about your scan. I've got my fingers crossed for you for your follow up scan.

pocket good luck on that bench with Mo!

AFM, waiting patiently (hmmmm) for my 12 week scan on 12 July. Am a bit worried about it all having gone wrong as I've not really got any symptoms now. Have restarted pokings biscuit biscuit in public coz the tenderness seems to have gone... So back on the waiting bus.

Welcome to chicken and waves to everyone! I am glad to have found you.

sunnyg Mon 18-Jun-12 20:25:08

sorry it's another 'me' post. I apologise profusely in advance! (and must also say sorry if this is TMI). It seems that I may have thrush. Yes the icing on the cake to the past week really. Am guessing it's the cyclogest pessaries. Been told to stay on them till re-scan on Thurs. From what I understand I can only use the thrush cream at this point? I guess if it doesn't clear up by Thurs I'll just have to tell the clinic when I go in.

Any thoughts?


Pocket1 Mon 18-Jun-12 21:34:27

Oh Sunny I feel for you. I had the worst thrush after the erpc (due to the antibiotics). I really really empathise. Im afraid I don't know what you can and can take. Can you ring the clinic in advance of your appt? Would you consider putting the cyclogest (ahem) up the back. blush. I always did, never got on with them at the front blushblushblush

chickenfordinner Mon 18-Jun-12 23:22:25

Hello ladies

Thanks for such a warm welcome gringringrin and for mo, kez, pocket and teds for your thoughts on my little dilemma. You've managed to articulate both sides of the conversation going on in my head! I do feel a little bit less worried about every little thing this time, but also don't want to take unnecessary risks... It wouldn't be very difficult not to have the manicure. Anyway I'll make a decision soon wink

Pocket excellent news about your two lovely embies, wishing you a quick wait on the bench. Mo when is otd for you?

Just a quick note to scarlett - what shoddy treatment from your doc. Not on at all IMO. I have v low AMH (1.9 when tested 6 mts ago, I'm 32). I would second what others have said in that i would want to be with a clinic who were more optimistic about my treatment. I have always been told that low AMH means fewer eggs but not necc any poorer quality as that is based on age, so still every chance for us. We moved to the lister for my second cycle as I just felt they were more experienced with women with low AMH, and in the end our nhs funding came through and we could transfer it to them which was a real result. The doc certainly should discuss protocol with you personally. For what it's worth, I was keen on the short protocol from all my reading but actually my local consultant and then the lister have both recommended the long protocol (but with a smaller dose of suprecur to down reg), not 100% sure why, but they seemed to consider it carefully which made me feel confident in their decision. I have been taking dhea on the recommendation of my lister consultant this time and had no side effects at all. I've also had acupuncture and tried to eat well and get enough rest. Do let me know if you want me to say any more about any of this grin

And ellie just also wanted to say sorry to hear your news, is so hard after all the effort we put in and the initial good news, but you really do only need one. We honestly thougt it was all over when we only got one egg but our little embie nearly made it! There are lots of people on here who have got their miracle from just one embie (or teds presumably from two?), I'll be keeping my fingers firmly crossed for you

Mammoth post on my phone = tired fingers grin

Chick (who is going to try and lay some lovely little eggs soon - thanks for the memory mogrin)

BadgerFace Tue 19-Jun-12 08:47:21

Oh sunny that's rough. I second pocket's suggestion of back door though, I found that worked better for me (as no leaking!). Sending you some good luck vibes.

Ellie how did you get on?

eurochick Tue 19-Jun-12 10:57:54

Hello ladies. Would you mind if I pop onto the thread to ask a question? I am a lurker on here but have never posted on these threads before.

I've just started downregging (Burserelin injections) for my first IVF cycle. Since about 12 hrs after the first injection, I have had some pains in my ovaries, the kind I usually get prior to ovulation. I never feel them after ov at all (and I am 10 days past ov now). Has anyone experienced similar? Is it just my ovaries reacting to the drugs and completely normal, or is it something I should call the clinic about?

Thanks in advance and good luck to everyone on the thread with their treatment.

EllieMcBellie Tue 19-Jun-12 13:15:55

Just a quickie to say I have an embryo on board smile

It had grown to 8 cells by the time of transfer and is a grade 2 (I think when I got pregnant with DD we had 2 very similar embryos transferred) so we are in with a chance at least

Off for a lie down now after all that excitement

ScarlettInSpace Tue 19-Jun-12 14:02:05

Thanks everyone, for some really solid advice grin it never occurred to me that I might not need to go to an NHS hospital to get the NHS Funding but this is definitely worth investigating further, as I’ve yet to speak to anyone at CRM who isn’t either patronising [1st appt], negative [2nd appt, last week] or rushing me out of the door because THEY can't keep to time on appts and are running an hour behind [both times]…

keziah I will definitely look into CARE in the region and give them a call, thank you,

Mo Pocket Ellie Go embies!! Very exciting stuff, have everything crossed wink

Ted & chicken thanks for the advice/shared experience, I was pretty taken aback when the cons took one look at my results and decided all my eggs were crap! Also that he just shoed us through to the nurses appt to start treatment without discussing the process [he suggested I just read the leaflet they provide shock ] the protocol options etc.

euro sorry I have no idea but it can’t hurt to put in a phone call to ask them?

MoJangled Tue 19-Jun-12 14:45:42

Hurray for the miniPockets! Go go go! I've kept a spot on the bench warm for you all.

And go the mini Ellie too!

Sunny ffs, as if you haven't got enough on your plate. You poor love. Have you tried natural yog?

Bugsy and Weller, how are u both?

Glad you found us again Badger.

I cracked and POSS, bfn. It's technically a day too early, as I'm supposed to have the blood test tmrw (but away for work so it'll be thurs) but these things are so sensitive now that I rather believe it. Wasn't going to tell DH but he caught me crying into DS's hair while giving him his bottle this morning. I'll do another test tmrw and the blood test but in my heart of hearts I know it hasn't worked. V v v sad.

ScarlettInSpace Tue 19-Jun-12 14:54:09

oh mo that is sad that you are sad, but there are plenty of tales about these boards where the peesticks have been disagreeable, and wrong, sojust try to remember it aint over til its over wink xx

Keziahhopes Tue 19-Jun-12 16:20:03

Ellie congrats on such a good embie growing for you.

Scarlett - Nottingham Care is the big one, but there is one at Northampton, Sheffield etc. You may have to wait a while to get an appointment with a consultant, but the difference is once you see a consultant if you are ready for treatment then you can cycle straight away! Worth getting a print out of every NHS test you have had so far and take them with you, to save time. I switched my NHS funding from my local hospital which took 13 months to do the basic tests to a Care unit... as long as you switch funding before you start treatment it is ok, as long as your PCT funds to that hospital/clinic - so a phonecall to the clinic is usually the quickest way to find out if they accept your NHS funding! Also Care clinics do once a month a free open evening - 2hrs with a consultant showing you round, meeting embryologisits etc so you can ask lots of questions! Other hospitals will do this too, I just know lots of Care clinics in midlands, up to Manchester and down to Northampton which may be more use to you than a London clinic (lots of good london clinics too like the Lister).

Mo hope the blood test more encouraging for you.

Pocket1 Tue 19-Jun-12 16:42:30

Mo honey. Don't give up hope yet. Wait to see what the blood test says. The fat lady is bound and gagged in our shed. She's not coming out for some time wink

ScarlettInSpace Tue 19-Jun-12 16:49:09

<sends puppy down to pockets shed to stand guard>

keziah Ive put the call into Northampton and they said they just need a letter from Cov PCT authorising it, they are happy to take me on. Spoke to PCT and after a chat about the difference between 'realistic' consultation & 'overly harsh & factually incorrect' consultation they have agreed to to put it to the person what makes the decision, I should know by the end of the week, thanks again for the advice <oops just realised I should prob talk to OH about it too before i go changing everything lol blush >

Does anyone know if I can I just walk into the hospital and ask them for print outs of all my test results? For my records maybe?

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