TTC for 10+ months, part 3

[joycep]

The other thread was just about to fill up and so here we are again with a slightly different name now as many of us have been trying for well over 12 cycles now. We had a few great successes on Part 2, with a couple of people getting bfp's on their 17th and 19th month of trying. So let's hope for more successes on Part 3. (Moaning, crying, sadness, anxiety & bitterness is certainly allowed on here!)

[NervousNelly]

Lovely new thread! Let's hope it's a lucky one

[skeletonbones]

ooh Shiney new thread thanks for making it Joycep, and v sorry to hear about your AF, period every three weeks sounds bloody horrible, I hope it lengthens a bit for you soon and, of course I hope the most that it buggers off allthogether due to a BFP for you soon.
also sorry to hear you are feeling down Lemondrizzle its not fair is it. I will send you a virtual piece of carrot cake as you are always cheering everyone up with your baked offerings (my carrot cake is from the shop up the road though as I am the shitest at baking!) bums to early spotting too NervousNelly sorry to hear about that.
Welcome back Euro glad you had a nice holiday.

Someone asked how many BFP's we have had so far and I think it is 6, four on the first thread and two on the second. As I remember our graduates have been the first thread OP whywait at 7 months trying, Karmanna (cant remember how long sorry) Runnerhasbeen at 10 months (forgot to say on the last thead Runner its great to hear you are doing well and are at 20 weeks already! keep popping back to update us please! Hopehopehope at 17 months and Biscuitsandtea at 19 months I think that is right? I know I have only mentioned five posters there and I'm sure there is another grad too as I remember it being four on the first thread but I cant remember her user name.

I am in my favorite bit of the cycle, period finishing, no chance to be symptom spotting or looking for AF and also no DTD pressure. I think you are my cycle twin this month wine as your one day different to me I think. I'm also feeling guilty as I have been horrible to Dh this month in the PMT week, I've always been quite mental prone to pmt but coupled with TTC failure makes my moods much lower and i am alternatly snappy and sobby, the highlight this month was me crying and ranting for two hours about my weight woes and our TTC failures on a canal bank (luckily secluded, not full of dog walkers, people feeding ducks and the like!) when we had supposedly gone out for a nice walk atogether when we were at my aunties and she had kindly offered to take the girls to look round the garden centre with her why me and dh had some time together. Poor dh. Anyway I am all cheerfull now and feeling to be optimistic about stuff, I really think that we will all get there in the end you know, this could be our lucky thread where there is loads of BFP's at once, as some of the other long terms threads seem to have happen

[eurochick]

Hello ladies!

I am just back from my first gynae appointment. It was all as expected really. He did an internal (somehow my first one at 35) which was fine. And referred me for a HSG, TV ultrasound, Rubella immunity check and hubby for a second SA.

Did anyone else have to take antibiotics for chylamidia before their HSG? Apparently it is my hospital's policy that you should because of the risk of spreading a chylamidia infection through your tubes by the HSG procedure. It caused a right kerfuffle because I am allergic to an antibiotic in the group they usually prescibe for this so they took ages to find a suitable alternative (the BNF was consulted, the pharmacist was rung, another person was rung, etc). Anyway, they eventually settled on something but it's likely to give me an upset stomach. I really don't want to take it. I have always taken myself for a general STD screen every few years and they have always been clear. And I hate taking unnecessary antibiotics.

[mrsden]

What a lovely new thread! And hopefully a very lucky one too. Thank you for setting it up joycep.

I have loads of ewcm today, typical that I should notice it when DH is away and there is nothing I can do about it. So, I think this will be a wasted month but at least it looks like I might be going to ovulate this month which is reassuring. I'll keep taking my temp to check.

Sorry about the spotting nelly.

joycep I think it is very easy for ttc to spark depression and I think we all need to watch out for the signs in ourselves so that we spot it early on. I'm not depressed, I only feel low when I think about ttc (which actually is quite a lot of the time) and I do feel ok at other times. At the moment I feel frustrated more than sad I think. Frustrated because no matter how hard we try or how much we want it it doesn't happen for us but then it does for other people. I wish that I could think about ttc a bit less but it is the most important thing going on in my life and I can't change that. I wish I could be more like DH because he only thinks about it when I bring it up, it's like he can push it out of his head and file it away which I can't.

Has anyone else noticed how many pregnant people are around? I don't know if it's just because it's summer and it's more noticeable because of the flimsy clothes or whether it's because I really am focussing on it but there are bumps everywhere. And loads of small babies.

[mrsden]

euro I don't think I have to take an antibiotic, it hasn't been mentioned. But I did have a screening for chlamydia last month as part of the investigations so maybe they're happy with that. I suppose it is probably cheaper for them to prescribe everyone antibiotics than to screen everyone (I don't know if it is usual to screen in the UK as part of fertility tests) and also unless you had the screen the same day they can't be 100% sure you are free from it at that time so I suppose it does make sense. What a pain about you having to have one that will upset your tummy.

[joycep]

Glad you like the new thread. I can't believe I posted on the first day of Part 1 and that was back in March...

Well done Skele for the summing up. I think that is practically everyone. It's really good that you are so positive at the moment. It's great to be able to hang on to optimsm as long as possible.

Euro - glad your first appt went through this time and there were no cock ups. I never have been asked about chlamydia but I have had a few tests for it.

Mrsd - i totally agree. We need to be aware of the impact it has on our lives and emotional well being. I get very low and miserable but I find it is sporadic, linked to hormones and not every day and i think depression is far more serious isn't it? I so wish I could think about ttc less but it is all consuming. It was so nice to read on the DM online, two articles about two tv presenters who struggled to get pregnant - one was senidng off for adoption papers and the other had 4 ivfs and then fell naturally....both around the age of 40. I love hearing stories like that because it happens even against the odds.
Yes there are loads of pregnant people about. I find they are everywhere I go. I can only assume that it was like this before I use to bat an eyelid.

I had a conversation at the weekend with a gynae in a pub. She was my friend's friend. She also has been trying for 2 years to get pregnant and she said she would never do ivf because she said there are huge risks of sth being wrong with the child. I have never heard this before with ivf and it really worried me. Does anyone know whether this is true? Surely there can't be huge risks....

[lovesLemonDrizzleCake]

Happy new thread to all of you and well done for sorting it joycep! It does mean looking back at the posts I haven't replied to on the last one is a bit more complex, so I'll just be lazy and continue from here

Thanks for the carrot cake skeleton that helps as cake always does. But I am now also paranoid whether I should be looking at some more healthy living, weight loss, although I am in the right BMI bracket so have always let myself eat whatever I fancy. I agree with you joycep and mrsd that TTC can spark depression and I certainly am on the look out for it. But when I mentioned it to my GP (because I am very scared of that, as I have a bit of a history) he came out with the just relax line, which made me very angry. He did correctly conclude though that the only thing that would really help was if I got pregnant... Helpful comment that, when you've just been sent home to try yourselves for longer!

As to antibiotics before HSG, euro I didn't have that. But I had my chlamydia checked with the day 3 bloods, just a few weeks before, so I think they assumed I hadn't acquired an STI in the meantime. Odd to not screen you first, if you react so badly to antibiotics.

Sympathies to nelly for spotting, I hate the stepwise BFD so much. I much rather get is all over and done with in one go!

General grump still here, but I met up with a friend for a late lunch in the sun just now, so that is good. And she is not TTC (my favourite type of people at the mo) and does know about our troubles so I can vent and complain, if I feel like it, or not if I don't want to!

[lovesLemonDrizzleCake]

X-post with joycep I haven't heard about huge risks to children from IVF, I don't think I (want to) believe that. And yes to the children and bumps everywhere... Bt I haven winged about that before!

[ladygee]

Hello ladies,

I'm wondering if you wouldn't mind me joining you? I have followed the 6 months plus thread for a little while but kept putting off posting. The start of a new thread, and the fact that we've just entered the 10+ months phase, seems like a good time to take the plunge...

I'm 29, DH is 32. We've been TCC since October last year with no joy. I thought there might be a problem with me (I spot from 3DPO for one week before my period) so I've had all the usual tests and DH had SA before being referred to the assisted conception unit at the hospital.

We had our first appointment on Friday (more scans and blood tests for me!). It looks as though things with me are working ok but they are quite concerned about DH's sperm count and motility. DH is going for a different type of SA this week, I've got another round of blood tests and then we have our next appointment in September. The nurse was very good but both Clomid and IVF were mentioned and it all feels a bit too real now.

Hoping I can join in on the new thread as you all seem so lovely :)

[lovesLemonDrizzleCake]

Hello ladygee welcome to the loveliest thread! It sounds like you got a head start on the investigations, which is always a good plan and that you are nice and young, so hopefully all will turn out ok. The first appointments are a bit overwhelming, aren't they? What were the numbers for your OH's SA? There are few ladies who know all about them on here, not me though, as we are unexplained... The mention of IVF in particular from a health professional is scary, isn't it? Although I have to admit, it is a beacon we are looking forward to in our household. Sadly also mostly saving for, but we'll see. I think we may get one round paid for if we wait long enough...

[ladygee]

Thanks for the welcome loveslemon - it does seem like a lovely place!

I know we've been lucky with our GP not wasting any time starting all the tests, when I first went to see her I expected to be told we'd need to wait a while but she's moved everything on quite quickly. I was so convinced there would be a problem with me that we're still getting our heads around the SA results. The first test numbers were: 7 million concentration and 10% motile (combination of rapid and progressive), around 75% were immotile, morphology was 4%. I've probably missed some things out but they were the main numbers.

The nurse said that this was pretty significant and that IVF might be the route for us. However, she said this to me whilst doing my internal scan when DH wasn't there - leaving me to deliver the news, which was the only bit I thought was pretty crap on their behalf. In general, they were supportive and explained everything well.

It is so scary. I guess, like most people, you never think you'll end up here. But I agree that TCC can spark depression - and I could sense myself heading down a miserable road. So for me, I think, it's better that we might have a plan now rather than month after month of nothing. I'm not sure DH feels the same at the moment. We will definitely be saving up too as I don't think I have the mental capacity to wait for the NHS funded round!!

Will read through some recent posts to try and get up to speed with everyone!

[poutintrout]

Thank you Joycep for the new, shiny thread. I think that TTC 10+ months is more appropriate, 6 months sounds like nothing! I can't believe that we have filled two threads already.

Welcome to ladygee. It amazes me how healthcare professionals can just drop important bits of info into conversations so glibly. I think that sensitivity is sometimes lacking.

I'm sorry Nelly that you are spotting.

Skeleton I think that regular meltdowns seem to be a part of TTC! I find that I can't discuss it without it descending into a full on wobble and meltdown.

Mrsd sorry that you have EWCM and an absent DH. When is he back, do you think you might catch the tail end of it?

Loveslemon I'm sorry that you're a bit fed up too though it's good that your lunch with a friend cheered you up. We were busy all weekend and I think that it did me good to have a break from thinking about TTC & babies - I felt more like my old self again.

Joycep I have never heard that IVF can lead to a problem with the baby. I wonder why that would be the case. Maybe poor quality eggs??

Euro I had to take a course of antibiotics starting the day before the HSG as I remember though they didn't say it was for chylamidia they said it was to avoid infection arising from the procedure.
I'm glad that you had your appointment eventually after all that hassle getting one.

I think that TTC is definitely not good for mental health. I have suffered from depression in the past. In my twenties I had a couple of bad bouts that needed anti depressants. Having said that I don't think that I am headed down that slippery slope at the moment, I think like you said Joycep it's more down and low. I am a bit wary of mentioning the "D" word to my GP though because I have read a few other threads on MN over the last year where ladies have said that if you have depression on your medical records you are more closely monitored by the midwife if you have a baby - I do not want to be treated like some freak (I already feel enough of a one as is) when I have a baby so would be inclined to keep quiet I think which isn't good. I also wonder whether it would count against you if you ever go through the adoption process. Does anyone know whether this is true. It seems incredibly cruel to me if it is. If anything I think getting through the lows of this ordeal makes you a strong person not someone to be treated like a basket case

[mrsden]

Welcome ladygee, this is a very supportive thread so I hope you'll feel at home here until you move on to our grads thread. It sounds like we are in a similar position. My DH has low count and low morphology although good motility at 70%. Although being able to swim fast is pretty useless if they are deformed! I think your main problem in getting pregnant will be that not many are motile which means they can't make the distance. And the numbers are low but not really low (my DH is worse). The good news is that we were told that it is easier to improve motility than morphology or number. Has your DH been taking supplements? And doing all the other things that are suggested? You might find that the second SA shows totally different results so try not to worry. My DH had quite a big improvement between the two samples so they do vary.

[mrsden]

joycep I've cut and pasted from the hfea website. I think the consensus is that it's not clear if there is an increased risk and even if there is that might be because the people going for ivf are usually older so that has increased risks or their infertility might be due to something genetic that can be passed on. Did that person know that you might be heading for ivf? Because if so I think it was a very unhelpful thing to say because it's not as though anyone has ivf because they want it, as far as I'm concerned it isn't a choice. It is used because it is the only way to have a baby.



Birth defects

The risk of birth defects in the general population is low: two per cent of children in Europe are born with birth defects. Although some research suggests that fertility treatment may be associated with an increased incidence of birth defects, this risk remains low.

Research to date does not show with absolute certainty that any increased risk is due to fertility treatment. Other causes cannot be discounted, including underlying subfertility in the parents, their age and unexplored factors.

Research into the area is ongoing and, in order to make sure patients understand the risks of fertility treatment, we keep research of this kind under review.

[joycep]

Welcome ladygee. Sorry you are having to join us but it's a great forum to air things and to get expert opinions . Together we are gaining a lot of combined knowledge which means we probably know more than GPs at least !!! Sorry to hear about your DH's SA. Like Pout says, it is unbelievable how news is delivered. But the whole road is scary - the fear of the unknown isn't it. I hope it doesn't come to ivf for you though.

Lemons - i'm glad you had a nice lunch. Hopefully the day will get better for you.

Pout - sorry to hear about your bouts of depression in the past. It's so common but still really not talked about enough. Ruby Wax's play, 'Losing It' is brilliant and she is trying to blow the lid off the stigma of it. I think i have heard things about having depression on your medical records when it comes to adoption but not actually when having your own baby. I don't know whether it does work against you though - it shouldn't because they can't discriminise. The adoption route just looks impossible as it is - i don'tt think you are even allowed to smoke. And you can't apply for adoption until 6month-1year after fertility treatment either. I would go abroad if I went down this route.

[joycep]

Mrsd - thanks for posting that. I really thought it was very unhelpful comments especially as she was a gynae. and i told her that that was where we were going if nothing happened. And i know one shouldn't take on board just one person's opinion but neuroticism takes over on this journey. But if it was really unsafe they wouldn't allow it.....ok will pop that conversation out of my mind for now.

[ladygee]

Thank you all for making me feel so welcome.

Joycep Good to hear that I'm in the company of experts - hopefully I can add to the pool of knowledge, well or just listen to others, offer support and have a good moan now and again!

Mrsd Sorry to hear you're in a similar position, although good that your DH's SA improved in the second test. The next analysis for my DH is a swim-up test, which checks for exactly what you say it needs to check for - that enough of them can swim up to where they need to be.

DH is generally quite healthy and exercises regularly but I'm sure there are things we're not doing that would help - there's so many that I forget what they are! So far I've had DH taking Men's A-Z (with iron and zinc) for the past 6 months, he's cut out caffeine, cut down on alcohol (but didn't drink much before) and doesn't smoke. Is there anything else we should be doing?

It might take me a while to get into the swing of this posting thing so forgive me if I appear to miss things or don't follow protocol :)

[mrsden]

It sounds like your DH is doing the main things ladygee. This is the list of things we've been told

No smoking
Not sitting for long periods without getting up e.g driving or at work
Not putting computer or mobiles on lap
Wearing loose underwear
No hot showers or baths, finish with a cool rinse in the shower
Reduce alcohol
Take Vit A, C, E, Zinc, Selenium and folic acid and also pine bark
Not cycling

DH had a swim up test, it showed that although his sperm had good motility this was very much reduced after 24 hrs so they didn't think IUI would work. But our gynae is prepared to try it anyway while we're waiting to save up for IVF so worth a go as nothing to lose. She has told us not to get our hopes up though. BUT, it does only take one so there is always a possibility that it will happen and I try to focus on that but I must admit that I feel a bit negative about our chances.

joycep it's not as though people who have ivf have a choice. Of course we'd all prefer to have a baby naturally but if ivf is our only option I will take a slightly increased risk of problems than to not have a baby. That's why I think it's an unhelpful thing for someone to say in the pub. If any of us do end up having ivf we will have thought long and hard about it. It is not something you go into lightly. I do sometimes think that people think that some couples choose ivf with little thought but that is not true. And there is no convincing evidence yet that it does make problems more likely, and even if there was a study that showed that there were I'd want to know that they had accounted for the average age of the woman being higher.

[ThatWayMadnessLies]

Evening everyone. Thanks joycep for the lovely new thread. I was actually a little bit worried that someone might start a new one and I'd lose you all. That pretty much sums up the fact that I worry way too much about everything . I hope that you're feeling better now. I find the miserableness comes in waves. I'm in an ok place at the moment, probably because I don't expect to ov before the weekend so no intense pressure at the moment. [Whispers] I'm actually looking forward to swi

Welcome ladygee and don't worry about protocols. I think that we're a pretty relaxed bunch around here, when it comes to everything apart from TTC of course :)

mrsden I totally understood your post on the last thread about pregnant friends getting closer. There were three ladies at work who were all pregnant together and I definitely felt the dynamic change. They all meet up more now than they did before and the non-pregnant ones aren't really included. It's not anything mean, it just sort of happened :(

Lemon I too spent some time over the weekend with a friend who isn't trying to get pregnant and it helped give me some perspective. She was really stressed about her relationship and worrying about whether she should stick with her dp or move on because there wasn't a future in it. Made me realise how lucky I am to have a dh that I adore and be in a position to be trying for a baby. How much worse would I be if I was facing my 33rd birthday without even the prospect of a husband, let alone children?

Sorry you're spotting Nelly, I agree with Lemon that it would be so much better for AF to arrive with a bang so that you know you're out, rather than letting you hang on to hope for that little bit longer.

pout I can ask my friends who are adopting about mental health issues. They have definitely had to have medical check-ups and her dh has been avoiding getting treatment for snoring because they don't want to complicate things before they go to the panel in a few months. There are a huge number of hurdles to clear! I think that the midwives are all really focused on looking for depression in new mums, whether or not you have a history of it.

OK, apologies to anyone I've missed. I'm going to have to start taking notes while I catch up so that I can remember everything that I wanted to say by the time I get around to posting!

[eurochick]

Welcome ladygee.

joycep I confess I have often wondered that about IVF. Because of the lack of natural selection (for anyone that watched that docu about conception a while ago it was clear that sperm really do have to run a gauntlet to reach the egg. But I have never seen studies to back it up and anecdotally don't know anyone who has had problems with an IVF baby or a non-IVF baby for that matter! But as for reasons of cost alone most people would only turn to IVF when other options were exhausted, the people who do it don't have a choice if they want to have kids.

BTW, having previously been told that hubby's SA was "normal" we actually picked up the printout today (not trusting that it would have made its way to my notes after the hospital lost the appointment twice - and we were right, it wasn't there). Anyway, the volume was quite low, under half the lowest end of the normal range. Motility was good, count per ml was good but morphology was below the end of the normal range, although the gynae wasn't bothered about this. He was bothered by the volume though. Hmmmm.

[Karbea]

Hello lovelies,

I just qualify, we've been trying since last October. Dh has finally agreed to get his sperm checked. No news with me really, I'm on day 23 (dpo 10) but I don't feel up the duff at all...
Last week of sick leave, really don't want to go back! Need to get preggers so I can retire!!!

[ThatWayMadnessLies]

To join in the IVF debate, there is no guarantee with any pregnancy that you aren't going to have problems. I think that people need to be aware that there can be consequences from intervening in the conception process, but I sometimes wonder if people stick their heads in the sand when it comes to "normal" pregnancies as well.

It doesn't help that I've spent my career teaching kids with special needs. I used to work in autism and my fellow teachers have spent the first few years of their children's lives looking for signs that they're having trouble making eye contact or lining up their trains in neat little rows . Lots of my current pupils were born prematurely and have difficulties resulting from that.

If you want to be a parent you have to be prepared (as much as you can be) that things might not go according to plan, whether or not you're going for IVF.

[mrsden]

Did the gynae say anything about if it was possible to increase the volume euro? How long did he abstain for before doing the sample because I know that frequent ejaculations can decrease the volume. Also, was he sure that he caught it all? Volume is a problem because even if the count per ml is good if there aren't many ml's then the overall count will be low if that makes sense. But it might just be a one off, had you ever thought volume was low (although I don't know how you'd tell without catching it in a measuring tube) but I do know that I notice there seems to be less if we do it every day.

[Biscuitsandtea]

Afternoon ladies.

Just popping in to mark my place. Apologies but no time to read and catch up today as have my sister visiting so am trying to be vaguely hospitable .

She's here until Thursday so will be very quiet I'm afraid.

Hope you all are ok and apologies again for not reading all properly

[mrsden]

That's a good point about premature babies madness because multiple births are more likely with ivf if they transfer two embryos and multiple pregnancies are more likely to result in premature birth and low birth weight.