Pleasant thread to ask about DS 5 and his ongoing explosive bowels...

[Brawhen]

DS started with very loose, often 'explosive' poo at about 15 months ish. GP said it was toddler diarrhoea, I read up about it and it seemed to make sense, so have always thought it was just that. Any time he's been ill and to the GP (eg occasional ear infections, routine vaccinations) I've always mentioned it but they've never shown any concern. I don't think he's been to the GP for probably 2 yrs now though.

He's now 5 coming 6 and the poo situation is still the same. I think I'm going to go and ask the GP's opinion again. But also wanted to ask - has anyone else had a similar experience?

Here's the TMI bit...

• He poos roughly once / day (it's not multiple times)
  
• He does often (not always) get big sense of urgency before he goes
  
• It's almost always very loose
  
• It's almost always quite gassy and explosive
  
• He often gets a sore tummy as he's going, but doesn't get tummy pain during the rest of the day
  
• He will often take 15 mins on the toilet to get finished
  
• It is smelly - but not sure it's any more smelly than normal poo
  
• There's no blood. Occasionally a bit of mucous or a bit greasy looking, but not very often.
  

IMO, if you were like this as an adult then you'd be trying to do something about it.

His diet is generally varied and pretty healthy. When he was younger we kept him right off fruit juice - these days he has it more (not daily, but no particular restriction). I've never done a real exclusion then re-introduction, but there doesn't seem to be a clear correlation with lots of juice followed by bad poo. We also tried 3 weeks with no cows milk right back when he first had the problems, but it seemed to make no difference so we don't restrict dairy at all either.

DS is otherwise healthy & growing fine, getting on well at school etc. Walked nearly 5 miles last weekend. Slightly skinny for his height, but has always been. Needs a bit more sleep/rest than average for his peers - but not alarmingly so.

If this is just the way he is then so be it. But I don't want to have missed something that ought to be treated.

[Brawhen]

Apols for long post about nasty subject!

[mawbroon]

DS1 had digestive and poo problems from toddlerhood.

Turns out he was tongue tied which can cause digestive problems. We had it revised and he is a lot better now.

Does he have any other things going on like speech problems, trouble with solids at weaning, dribbling, fussy eating etc?. Did you breastfeed, did you have any problems?

[Brawhen]

He's had no speech problems. He was breastfed with no probs and weaning was fine. He's not too fussy (a bit, but diet is quite wide I think).

He was quite dribbly - but that stopped some time in his pre-school year I think.

How long can tongue tie remain a problem?? (I thought it was just a baby thing - maybe I'm very wrong)

[mawbroon]

No, not just a baby thing. Wish it was!

DS1 is 7yo and as well as his gastric trouble, he has suffered all sorts of problems related to tongue tie. Sleep problems, eating problems, allergy and intolerance, ear trouble, unable to breathe through his nose, high palate and associated dental problems - he has just got a brace to expand his palate.

Funnily enough, he has no speech problems apart from a slight lisp and he could stick his tongue out really far and lift it up high. This is why it went undiagnosed until he was 6.

But, not everyone with tongue tie will suffer the same problems and some will suffer more than others.

[Brawhen]

Thanks - I've also just googled and seen a story of an 8 yo getting a tongue tie correction. I will study DS's tongue tomorrow

Have also been reading that it's quite easy to test for fructose intolerance (with a breath test) and coeliac with blood tests. Don't think he's ill enough to suspect a gluten intolerance, but maybe worth questioning. I'm nervous about coming over as PFB mother to the Dr!

[mawbroon]

Be prepared that his tongue may look entirely normal!!

I was told by the paed surgeon who used to run the tongue tie clinic that ds1 wasn't tied.

It is not something that HCPs are really up on. I was basically poo pood when I suggested to the docs that his gastric troubles were linked to his tongue tie and have had to investigate everything myself and pay to have revisions done privately (we had to have it done twice as the afore mentioned paed surgeon didn't do it properly).

some good info here there is a lot of incorrect stuff about tt on the internet.

[StuntNun]

TMI alert but after my DS1 had threadworms he became a bit peculiar about going to the toilet (I think because it had been sore and itchy). He started to have diarrhoea-like poos that came without warning so that he had to run to the toilet or soil himself. It turned out he had a blockage of (I assume) solid poo in his bowels and the rest was kind of squirting around it (sorry it's really gross to describe). It was actually a really easy solution, we just had to give him a low dose of lactulose every day to gently clear him out and the problem resolved. I have no idea whether your child's problem is similar but it is possible that there is something simple going on before you start looking at serious illness like coeliac.

It also sounds like it could be a food intolerance. Is it worth trying some kind of exclusion diet?

[Brawhen]

Thanks all - and giving this a bump too.

I had a chat to him about what he thinks about asking the Dr about whether he needs some help with his tummy - he was actually quite up for the idea. We decided together that we're going to try a week of no fruit and no fruit juice to see if it provides an instant improvement, and we'll make a time to go to the GP.

[shattereddreams]

I think it's cows milk protein.
DD is the same. And soya affects her too. We use Oatly enriched milk and vitalite spread. No yogurts, no cheese no choc. No crisps with milk in. Ie all of them.
Soya is in everything, mainly bread. Wait rose wholemeal, French bread, bagels and some pitta is soya free.

She has been through Kings, London. So everything has been checked medically and this is their conclusion.
She was anaemic due to constant diarrhoea. You saying he is a little tired....?

I would advise cut milk fr 6 weeks. Be tough about it, give him sweets instead of icecream. Take a multivitamin with iron and calcium (boots kids a-z) whilst restricting diet.

See if you get plops not slops. Discuss it openly with him!

We are now reintroducing milk. She can tolerate a little cheese, choc or cakes biscuits etc. but not yoghurt, milk etc.

[Brawhen]

shattered how did they pinpoint it to cows milk protein? Was that through an exclusion diet, or can they do some kind of 'instant' test?

Have made a GP appointment for next week.

[shattereddreams]

Exclusion diet I'm afraid. It's not particularly scientific!
But they confirmed it is likely this, she had a lactose test which was neg.

[TheBigKidsDidIt]

Apple juice? Sounds like a great description of my ds if he has too much fruit juice.

[Elsy]

We have exactly the same problem with my DD, also 5, except that she also has periods of constipation. Have been seeing specialist for about a year and, after trying a course of laxatives, he's finally sent her off for a stomach x-ray and blood tests. Am awaiting results at the moment. My gut feeling is that it is food related - she has always been ultra sensitive to fruit - but both my GP and the specialist strongly advised against an exclusion diet. I find it very distressing as it is so difficult for her when it happens at school or friends' houses. I am thinking of finding a food allergy specialist privately at the moment in the hope of clearing it up.

[Betty5313]

Dd (now 2.9) had the same problem, green poo from when we started weaning and then really bad from when I stopped bf at 14 mths. Dismissed as toddler diorrhea by the gp, then she got awful sores on her nappy area and started throwing up after she drank milk. We realised she was a bit better if we boiled milk first, and a friend who is a scientist suggested this pointed to an issue with milk protein. The gp was flummoxed but agreed to refer to the paediatric dietician. We did an exclusion diet and she has been confirmed severely intolerant to cows milk protein, soy and lactose. We also have problems with most fruits and the dietician has advised ok to avoid that too.

She is now fine digestive system wise, just eating out/toddler groups/preschool can be a real nightmare!

[simpson]

I also think it might be worth considering dairy...

DD is dairy / soya intolerant.

Dairy was diagnosed with a stool test (but they need to be eating dairy to do it)...

Coeliacs usually has other symptoms too I think.... Bloating, weight loss/gain etc...

The blood test for coeliacs is very straight forward though, DD had it done twice...

[MoreBeta]

I thought coeliac immediately as well. Get him tested for coeliac and also dairy and lactose and fructose intolerance.

[newbrunette]

I had similar issues with ds (now 5). He had his first solid poo at aged 3, when we decided to try cutting out gluten. We had avoided milk for a while but it didn't seem to be the answer. Going gluten-free made a massive change in just a few days.

I also have gluten issues - I'm mainly gluten-free now too but if I do have some, I get stomach pain, bloating, diarrhea and wind. Nice. I had previously had coeliac blood test but it came back negative, so it's definitely possible to have gluten intolerance without having coeliac disease.

Ds hasn't been tested for coeliac as we'd have to go back on the gluten for a couple of months in order for the test to be accurate. I don't really want to put him through two months of discomfort, especially as I think it's unlikely he has coeliac. Like me, more likely an intolerance. Might be worth a try for your ds?

[newbrunette]

Sorry, I meant to say it makes sense to get the coeliac test before cutting out gluten otherwise it won't be accurate. We didn't realise that at the time.

[Mistsoftimeandspace]

Is there any link to Banana consumption.

Some people are very intolerant of Bananas and they cause this kind of explosive poo.

Many smoothies contain Banana so it is easy for children to be consuming it without you even realising it.

Elimnation stops the problem within days.

Just a thought!!

[Brawhen]

Thanks everyone!

Bananas interesting - I didn't know that and sounds like would be an easy one to test out.

He eats gluten and milk daily so think will ask GP (and ask if is way to get hold of dietician?) before trying exclusion on either of those as will take some organisation and would want to get it right.

He's had no fruit juice for a week, and also cut down on fruit overall. I thought it seemed a bit better, but then had a bit of a 'session' this morning so I guess inconclusive so far.

We've let it carry on so long because he doesn't seem ill, other than when actually pooing. But what someone said above about tiredness and anaemia made me think a bit. We were out with friends for lunch and compared to their kids he definitely reaches the end of his energy sooner. But then again, he's one of the youngest in school year and among the tallest in his class, and not missed a day sick since before pre-school.