German Measles - anyone had it & what DOES the rash really look like??

[rockinhippy]

My DD came up with a strange pale rash - initially felt more than seen, sandpaper feel to her skin - started on her torso, a bit on her forehead, & then spread everywhere, though not her face bar very slight under her fringe. - her fingers & feet look most red & her back & chest itch the most

She also has a sore throat, snuffles, generally feels unwell, though not badly so, complains of feeling nauseous & says that the rash "burns" - without pain killers she had a low temperature of average 37.1

its lots of tiny little raised bumps, almost like goose bumps, but all close together, when looked at in strong light it looks pink & its really irritating her, but antihistamine doesn't help, nor does Calomine - soaking in a bath with oats & lavender etc brought the rash out more & made it look more red for a while.

Everything I look at on the internet points at German Measles/Rubella, photos of the rash from what I can tell, do look similar - though as is pale its not so easy to tell from a photo

I had a telephone consultation yesterday with out GP, who said it sounded like possible Rubella, but felt she needed to be see to be sure - the only DR available to see us is not one I really trust with Kids, as he misdiagnosed DDs Pneumonia as a virus, despite my arguing she had obvious signs of struggling to breathe - he insisted I was imagining it & it was a virus - she was rushed into hospital choking 2 hours later

I do try & avoid him with DD, but had no choice this time & out GP reassured me that as its just a case of identifying a rash, he would be fine.

He did seem puzzled & left the room I presume to check with someone a couple of times & ended up diagnosing it as a probably Virus with a pale rash - insisting she didn't have a temperature - despite my already having told him she'd had Ibruprofen to bring it down.

Some of the questions he was asking - eye symptoms etc, pointed more to him thinking it was actually measles, which I have since found out there IS an outbreak in the area - its not measles, doesn't look anything like it

DD HAS been immunised with single jabs, but not with Rubella jab as she supposedly had that at 9 months old, so we were advised against it at the time - thinking back, from what I can tell from internet photos, THIS seems more like Rubella than she had back then - that was more a definite rash & not pale

I know German measles in't a bad illness in kids - but that it can be for others & I naturally don't want to put anyone else at risk, hence my worry about taking this GPs word for it - I accept this might be me, just not trusting his judgement down to past experience & he might well be right, but bar the usual Kiddie rash bearing bugs I've not seen a virus with a rash - & this rash is different to any I've seen before - DD has had most things & also has urticaria allergy problems, so used to recognising rashes

Can anyone with experience of German Measles/Rubella, please describe, or tell me if my description fits the Rubella rash as you saw it???

Thank You

[bubbleymummy]

Both boys had it. It was a pinky coloured rash all over and they had swollen glands like little bumps at the back of their head and neck - apparently very common with rubella. 37.1 isn't a fever. Maybe some sort of skin irritation?

[rockinhippy]

Thanks bubbley her neck glands are up a bit & the rash during the course of the day as covered pretty much most of her body, across her cheeks earlier, keeps fading in some places, though is still there & flares up more somwhere else IYSWIM - but is pink when its showing up properly, which is her upper legs arms & torso ATM

it is a weird one though, pretty sure its not skin irritation as its different to what she's had before -

but whatever it is - I am feeling more confident now that its NOT Rubella as have heard back from 2 friends whose work is linked to the PCT & they say there are no local outbreaks of Rubella, though there are of Measles, but its definitely not measles & the incubation time would mean she couldn't have picked it up elsewhere, so I can relax now :) - it probably is an odd little virus - & your right - no fever, just slightly high temp for a DC

I was worrying more so as we'd seen a few friends over the weekend who would fall into the high risk groups, but didn't want to worry them unnecessarily & didn't know what to do as regards keeping her in - think she could do with some fresh air, but would hate to think we could be passing something nasty onto someone vulnerable, which could be the case around her - if it had been Rubella - now confident its not though, so her Dad has taken her out :) -

[bubbleymummy]

Good that you were being responsible anyway! Better to be on the safe side with these things. I hope she gets over whatever if is quickly. It does sound very strange. Maybe some kind of heat rash (if it's sunny where you are!) or mild reaction to suncream?

[rockinhippy]

Thanks, thankfully she does seem to be picking up & though the rash is still visible, its not irritating her as much as it was :)

It hasn't been sunny enough for that here until today, so no real heat or sun cream - its a real mystery as due to her having intolerance to food additives, colours etc, we/she are very careful & therefore always aware of what she's eating & washing in that could affect her & anything she does rect to is very quick to show up - & the skin reaction is very different to this too

so like I say a real mystery, so I can only presume the GP is right after all

[whomovedmychocolate]

Sounds like ulticaria - if she has allergies I'd be tempted to give her junior piriton and see if it magically disappears over two hours.

My DC developed a sudden reaction to sunblock recently that they'd had before which looked very much like german measles (which DS has had so I knew what it looked like).

Hope she feels better soon. :)

[sneezecakesmum]

With a sore throat and a sandpapery feeling rash I would like your GP to rule out scarlet fever, as this needs antibiotics or can lead to nasty stuff.

[rockinhippy]

thanks whomovedmychoc but its definitely NOT that, its a very different sort of rash to the usual urticaria she gets

& tried piriton, but it didn't work at all - thankfully she does seem to be on the mend though :)

[rockinhippy]

thanks sneeze - Wouldn't Scarlet fever be a lot more obvious, as in red, rather than flesh coloured with pink patches ??

[Champagneforlunch]

If you do think it is Rubella you have to get the Gp to test for it, as public health need to know or they do in Scotland anyway.
Dd has had what looks like a text book case but as it wasn't tested at the time we're having to go through everything with them a week late.

[whomovedmychocolate]

Pattern of development is important in rubella rashes

[moosemama]

I would second sneezecake's mum's suggestion.

Ds1 has had scarlet fever no less than 5 times! (You're not actually supposed to be able to get it twice, let alone repeatedly - but for some reason my ds seems unable to build up proper immunity to it.)

Its actuallys characterised by a sandpapery rough rash which eventually sloughs off, particularly the hands and feet. basic info here

The rash isn't scarlet or bright red, its often quite subtle. Scarlet refers to the redness of the tongue, although the last time ds had it his tongue wasn't as red as previous times, probably because he has now finally managed built up some degree of immunity (after almost 5 years of repeated infections).

Scarlet fever is actually a build up of a particularl strep bacteria and as sneezecakes mum said needs to be treated with antibiotics. If left untreated it will most likely keep coming back and can lead to some nasty side effects.

Ds had his first dose almost five years ago and at the time our GP said she had never actually seen a case before. Since then several other children at his school have also had it, so it seems its on the rise.

Your GP should have swabbed for it as a matter of course and if the right strep is found a minimum 10 day course of antibiotics is required. A lot of GPs will try and get away with a 5 day course, but that's not enough to see it off and the gold standard is at least 10 days. The twice ds was given 5 day courses it was back as soon as his last does of antibiotics wore off.

[moosemama]

Actually just re-read my link and it says the patient will develop a flushed red face hence the name scarlet fever - that's not what we were told and ds doesn't get a particularly red face with it.

I was told the scarlet bit comes from the characteristic 'strawberry tongue'. As far as I am aware flushed cheeks are normal, but not literally a scarlet coloured face.

more info here

[rockinhippy]

Thanks everyone - I think I am going to ring GP & ask for a second opinion, not least because its School on Monday & obviously don't want to be taking her back if it IS anything to worry about.

I am now very confident it isn't German measles - & doesn't look at all like the link above & the rash started on her torso - not - face, also one of our friends works in the local microbiology dept & she was one who came back confirming we have no local outbreaks of that - & it would be her job to know, the other friend works for another GP & tells me as its notifiable, they would know too, & no notice has been posted

I still don't know what to make as regards Scarlet fever though, her face isn't really flushed as such, but not that pale either now & no real fever, only a slightly raised temp, & her tongue doesn't look "strawberry" but was white & is now pink without any coating at all, which is unusual when ill

Today her lips have peeled & look a bit yellowed & cracking & she's complaining they are sore - rash now is still mainly on her torso, backs of legs & now more so on her hands, which seems to be irritating her the most, she is also getting diareah, but that can be normal for her if she is ill or run down, or stressed in any way :(

Thanks again

[Halgirl]

Ds had german measles. Was a pink blochy rash. My mum noticed it behind his ears first and then eventually spread. Doctor tested for it and confirmed it. However, was very mild because although his glands were up and he had a bit of a temp, he wasn't overly unwell. But that was after he had had injection, so probably could have been worse if he hadn't.

[rockinhippy]

Updating just incase anyone else ever has to deal with this

Turns out there is a possibility that this could have been Kawasaki disease & as DD still has peeling skin on the palms of her hands after this, especially after bath/swimming - we are been referred to the hospital to rule out suspected Kawasaki disease :(

So if any of your DCs have similar problems PUSH for an early referral, & don't take no for an answer

trying really hard not to worry & hoping its going to rule it out, but got to be honest reading up on Kawasaki, its looking pretty scary & DD didn't get the early intervention that means its not a big problem

[sneezecakesmum]

Thanks for updating rockin... I would be very surprised if this is Kawasaki because it presents with a very high and persisting fever 5 days +, and DD was fever free.

Anyhow I think your gp is being extra cautious to rule it out, and quite rightly, as you say its a very nasty illness though rare so not something you want to miss

[rockinhippy]

Thanks :) - I'm hoping & expecting you are right "sneezecakes" as it is apparently very rare - though the only thing niggling me is that she has had serious illness before, that should have come with a high temp, but she was without a fever & I don't get a high temperature myself when ill with infections & the likes, which has cause us both problems getting properly diagnosed at times -

she is showing a lot of symptoms still, but its easy to get paranoid & start thinking the worst in situations like this, so trying to keep a reign on myself until we see the specialist in a couple of weeks - I don't want to become paranoid helicopter Mum & start wrapping her in cotton wool :(

Though as its something I'd never heard of, I thought it worth updating for others sakes