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Oh b*gger all going pear shaped

(36 Posts)
PhDMumof1 Mon 04-Jul-05 14:27:22

Our lovely nanny is on her last 2 weeks with us. She and I seem to have lost the plot a bit: I think that she has become quite invasive / controlling with DS around me, while she thinks that she is following normal procedure for a handover to Mum. She keeps prefacing her sentences with things like "Basically at nanny school we were told to do X, Y, Z". These sentences are all about shared care. I have been working at home for the year and I think her frustration with having "had" to deal with that is coming out, as she keeps telling me that most of her nanny friends would never do "shared" care, ie while Mum was working from home, because "It confuses the child / Mum might want to use the kitchen while nanny did / Nanny might feel self-conscious" etc etc.

She has done a really good job with DS all year, but now I am thinking back to all the niggly things she did vis a vis us as parents, and I can't wait to see the back of her ... . Feel really ungrateful and also annoyed that she is being so pushy this late in the day ...

binkie Mon 04-Jul-05 14:42:09

Just followed you over from the other!

The end is always always difficult, really, however good the working relationship has been. Like moving house, it's far more upsetting than one anticipates.

And if she's been lovely with ds, then at some level she'll be eating her own heart out over leaving him - could that explain the invasiveness?

I've got lots more to say if you like! - ending up with, make sure you do your best to stay civil because four months down the line you may well be best friends again.

PhDMumof1 Mon 04-Jul-05 14:44:50

Thanks for your input binkie. Yes I suppose all the heightened stress of leaving him might make her less tactful than usual. I just suddenly feel horribly uncomfortable in my own house.

Also, is it usual that nanny can claim back tax that you have paid for herself? Given that we had agreed a net wage, is this fair (or am I being horribly penny pinching - I haven't actually been earning money in this period, I have been studying).

binkie Mon 04-Jul-05 15:01:12

Guessing she's on a working holiday? It is I'm afraid quite usual for backpackers to claim back tax if their overall earnings are under the tax threshold - more typically people doing receptionist or waitressing type jobs - and in your case I do see how talking about that would hit you as thoughtless. I wouldn't have thought it's anything one could adjust pay for - after all, it's up to her how much she chooses to earn in total.

We've been through nanny exits a few times. I think the most telling was one who'd been with us a long time, and it really was time to move on - both sides had started to develop what I can only think of as little allergies to things about each other. I think she and I both managed it by doing special things for the children - she took them off to visit her parents for a few days, that sort of thing - and otherwise giving each other lots of space. A year later, and with each of us having since had another boss/another nanny respectively, all those allergies have completely gone and she is a permanent family friend. I am so so glad that we both bit our tongues!

Issymum Mon 04-Jul-05 15:39:55

Hi PHDmumof1

We had similar issues when our last nanny left. She was fabulous, but it all felt a bit 'scratchy' in the last few weeks. We held it together, remained good friends and six months later she returned to cover my current nanny's one month holiday. Funnily enough within a few days of the second stint she started to make comments about me working from home. As the reason that I was working from home was that I was just getting over a vile stomach virus, my reaction was to burst into tears. Not very grown-up but very effective, hugs and apologies all round and we were fine after that!

PhDMumof1 Mon 04-Jul-05 15:45:31

Thanks binkie and Issymum. You always worry that it is just you in this situation. She is not a backpacker now but about to become one so I suppose she is making that calculation. I can't help thinking that it is all my savings that went towards paying for her tax and how I would rather have spent them on something other than childcare tax anyway!

But you are both right, scratchy / allergic is the word. I am trying to keep out of the way and have made appts for haircut, smear, dentist etc etc etc to make sure I am out more. sigh

sunnydelight Mon 04-Jul-05 16:32:17

Hi. I don't want to cause offence here but I don't understand why you resent her claiming her tax back so much (and it is the tax that she has paid on her earnings, you have just arranged the administration as all employers have to do). It sounds like until now she has done a good job, wouldn't you prefer she got the money rather than the government?

PhDMumof1 Mon 04-Jul-05 16:48:56

SDelight, I really didnt mean to give the impression that I resent it - it is just one of those things that has added to some of the difficulties of handover. Maybe I am moaning / emoting too much.

sunnydelight Mon 04-Jul-05 17:46:24

Don't think you can ever moan/emote too much when it comes to your kids - you should start me on the subject of schools!!!!! Sorry, as I said I didn't mean to make you feel bad.

jura Mon 04-Jul-05 22:54:05

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

uwila Mon 04-Jul-05 23:00:50

Agree with Jura. It's only fair that the money go back to the person who paid it.

MrsWobble Tue 05-Jul-05 08:31:29

whilst I would like to agree with Jura I think it doesn't work that way. Because, legally, you have paid the tax/NI on behalf of your nanny (it's her liability not yours) any repayment must be hers (as she overpaid not you). The fact that you agreed a net contract is not relevant here - you haven't also agreed to underwrite her tax position as an individual ie including non schedule E items.

Doesn't stop it feeling wrong though - and I speak as a nanny employer

PhDMumof1 Tue 05-Jul-05 09:21:49

OK I am going to email nannytax and ask them what the real deal is. Get back to you later with an answer hopefully.

PhDMumof1 Tue 05-Jul-05 09:38:53

Sunnydelight & Mrs Wobble are right - nanny's tax allowance is her's alone.

nannynick Tue 05-Jul-05 09:43:17

Tax can be such a confusing thing, especially if a Net wage is agreed... over a tax year, there can be changes, which could leave the employer (who agreed a Net wage) out of pocket.

For my new nanny job, a Gross wage has been agreed - makes it much easier for both my new employer and myself.

Would love to know the outcome of your enquiry with Nannytax PhDMumof1, so looking forward to you posting what you find out.

jura Tue 05-Jul-05 11:22:43

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PhDMumof1 Tue 05-Jul-05 11:40:53

Nannytax have basically reiterated to me what most people have to say about it: tax allowance is nanny's and therefore not transferable, and that agreement of a net wage does not then allow the employer to claim anything back.

They advised me very strongly to negotiate a gross wage with next nanny as, if nanny's tax band changes as a result of 2nd job or owing to the Revenue for any other reason, you as an employer are liable to pay the extra tax that she now incurs on your earnings (as a result of earning more overall).

uwila Tue 05-Jul-05 11:43:46

I only meant that hypothetically that would be the fair way to do it. But I realise full well that the way I think things ought to be and the way they are can be two very different things.

Sorry for confusion.

PhDMumof1 Tue 05-Jul-05 11:46:09

Me too Uwila. Life is never run according to PhDMumof1's wishes. DS never sleeps in, for a start!

jura Tue 05-Jul-05 12:19:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

uwila Tue 05-Jul-05 12:37:16

Ah, yes. I too hire in a gross figure. Wouldn't do it any other way.

uwila Tue 05-Jul-05 12:38:02

How's it going, Jura? Any prospects?

Issymum Tue 05-Jul-05 13:00:31

Very interesting thread. We will be changing nannies in October as our current paragon of a nanny is returning to New Zealand to take up a job in management .

We've always paid a net salary, but part of me just thinks that is plain wrong. The nannies we employ are at least in their mid-20s and have the maturity and education to deal with the concept of personal tax. I think we'll pay the next one on a gross basis.

By the way, aside from the simply childcare magazine and the nannyjob, greataupair and gumtree websites, any top tips for finding a new nanny without going down the agency route?

PhDMumof1 Tue 05-Jul-05 13:25:50

Issy Mum will you be leaving it to nanny to organise her own payroll / tax payment arrangements? Does anybody do this? I think I may be too risk averse, as it seems that you are still liable as an employer, but would be interested to hear thoughts.

As for finding a nanny, I tried nannyjob etc but got the best candidate thru an agency that sources NZ & Ozzie nannies - CAT me and I will send you details if interested. She is not too pricey (4 wks' net salary charged, all inclusive).

uwila Tue 05-Jul-05 18:52:28

PHDMof1,
You are legally bound to extract the money from her paycheque and send it off to the IR (quarterly) on her behalf. Nannypaye or nannytax can arrange the sums for you.

As for where to look, Issy, I always use the websites you mentioned. Of course, there's word of mouth as well... One of the nanny schhols (chiltern maybe? or is it Norland?) runs a placement agency too. Might check them out. I personally steer clear of agencies because I'm not convined that they contribute enough to justify their cost. But of course that's not everyones view.

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